I have tried on several occasions to get into rec.boat.paddle to see what all the sp**ns*n hubbub is about; but each time I was unable to get into any type of forum. I got to rec.boat.paddle but there is nothing about sponsons there. All I could find was a FAQ area. What am I doing wrong? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:29 PM 4/27/01 -0700, Tom wrote: >I have tried on several occasions to get into >rec.boat.paddle to see what all the sp**ns*n hubbub is >about; but each time I was unable to get into any type of >forum. I got to rec.boat.paddle but there is nothing >about sponsons there. All I could find was a FAQ area. >What am I doing wrong? The first thing to remember is that rec.boats.paddle is USENET, not the world wide web, so things are a little different. There are several ways you can try to get onto it. Much depends on your internet service provider. I use a local provider that provides rec.boats.paddle and rec.boats.paddle.touring. If your ISP handles it, and you are using Netscape or Internet Explorer with Outlook Express, just type (or copy and paste) in the browser window: news:rec.boats.paddle or news:rec.boats.paddle.touring If it comes back "no such group" or some such, you can try an alternative that does support it. The one I used to use actually comes from France, but does a better job in catching posts than my local ISP -- go figure. You can read, but cannot post. Type (or copy and paste): news://news.univ-angers.fr/rec.boats.paddle or news://news.univ-angers.fr/rec.boats.paddle.touring If that fails, you can use Google on the world wide web. This does not support rec.boats.paddle.touring, and I don't know if you can post there or not. Copy (or type if you wish): http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=&as_ugroup=rec.boats.paddle There are other ways to get to USENET. If none of these work, get back with me and I'll try to help. I used to be a fairly active participant on RBP and RBPT, and still am on other groups, but the s****** stuff has driven a lot of meaningful discussion away from the paddling groups. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks to all for the backchannel tips on how to get to rec.boat.paddle. I got there from google, but aparently there are a few ways to get there. There was loads of sp*ns*n ranting. Has this been non-stop for the last 5 years? WOW! --- Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > I have tried on several occasions to get into > rec.boat.paddle to see what all the sp**ns*n hubbub is > about; but each time I was unable to get into any type of > forum... > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> > there are a few ways to get there. There was loads of > sp*ns*n ranting. Has this been non-stop for the last 5 > years? WOW! No..... Spurious sponson spews, spawning spasms of spontaneous spectator responses, sprouts in sporadic spells spoiling speach and sport. iow... spam spam spam :-) Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tom said: <<<< Thanks to all for the backchannel tips on how to get to rec.boat.paddle. I got there from google, but apparently there are a few ways to get there. There was loads of sp*ns*n ranting. Has this been non-stop for the last 5 years? WOW! >>>> Tom, The rec.boat spams by sponsonspoilsport recently intrigued me enough to check out Tim's web site. I have not been near it for some time. He has used quotes and incidents from a number of my articles for SK Mag, out of context, to promote his rescue device. I caved in and actually e-mailed him over his misuse. Constructively, I also attempted to communicate with him on an altruistic level, seeing as how he is on a apparent-at-first-sight crusade for kayaker safety. For context, I wanted some information from Tim regarding an article I'm doing up on the kite sailing kayaker who died. Tim responded with more hyperbole, and categorically stated my culpability and "strong record of stupidity". In the same breath, he stated both I and SK Mag as guilty of murderous action toward innocent people. I never really understood the meaning of the word spam, being relatively new to e-mail and not ever getting much in my inbox. Now I understand what Jackie was talking about. I don't know for the life of me why I expected him to respond with meaningful communication. Even animals and aquatic life are capable of more meaningful communication and productive intercourse than Tim is capable of. Guess I just had a small ray of hope in me that he might step into the light a bit. I did remind him that if kayaker safety is his ultimate aim, then he serves his cause poorly given his terrible on-line demeanor. Well, I still feel it a privilege to be part of Paddlewise, given the great bunch of folks represented on it. Where else can one find e-mail philanthropistic generosity from the likes of guys like Dave Kruger and Nick Schade, to name a few. Well, sorry for my sponson-spam here. I never been within a ten-foot pole distance of the subject before. Doug Lloyd (feeling, yes Tim, very stupid) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It is really kind of sad that Tim has given himself such a bad reputation. I truly believe his heart is in the right place. He has just chosen a very bad way of making his point. As a whole the kayaking industry could probably do a better job of communicating the risks of kayaking, and Tim's sponsons have a place in making the sport safer. While Tim may be delusional regarding the ranking sponsons should be given in the safety hierarchy I don't think he is promoting their use for his own personal financial gain. I think he really believes everyone should use sponsons because it will make them safer and it shocks him that people don't fall to their knees before him in gratitude. And the more people disagree with him the more defined his belief becomes. While it seems to us that he twists every subject back to sponsons, to him everything does have to do with sponsons and he is trying in vain to make people see that. We can only hope that someone Tim really trusts will one day convince him to give it a rest. It must be a sad life believing that the world out there is full of wanton murderers ready to let people drown just to make a few bucks. Nick At 6:41 PM -0700 4/29/01, Doug Lloyd wrote: >Tom said: > ><<<< >Thanks to all for the backchannel tips on how to get to >rec.boat.paddle. I got there from google, but apparently >there are a few ways to get there. There was loads of >sp*ns*n ranting. Has this been non-stop for the last 5 >years? WOW! >>>>> > >Tom, >The rec.boat spams by sponsonspoilsport recently intrigued me enough to >check out Tim's web site. I have not been near it for some time. He has >used quotes and incidents from a number of my articles for SK Mag, out >of context, to promote his rescue device. I caved in and actually >e-mailed him over his misuse. Constructively, I also attempted to >communicate with him on an altruistic level, seeing as how he is on a >apparent-at-first-sight crusade for kayaker safety. For context, I >wanted some information from Tim regarding an article I'm doing up on >the kite sailing kayaker who died. Tim responded with more hyperbole, >and categorically stated my culpability and "strong record of >stupidity". In the same breath, he stated both I and SK Mag as guilty of >murderous action toward innocent people. I never really understood the >meaning of the word spam, being relatively new to e-mail and not ever >getting much in my inbox. Now I understand what Jackie was talking >about. > -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nick The most pragmatic post regarding Tim and his online demeanor I have read to date! Well put, Nick! And obviously I agree with you! I believe Tim's mission with regard to the role sponsons should play in the sport is very well-intended. And I believe that for certain paddlers, sponsons make sense. It's just a shame his absurd and inflammatory approach is obviously turning people away. Jim Tynan Pike Road, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Nick Schade Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:30 AM To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Tim's Heart It is really kind of sad that Tim has given himself such a bad reputation. I truly believe his heart is in the right place. He has just chosen a very bad way of making his point. As a whole the kayaking industry could probably do a better job of communicating the risks of kayaking, and Tim's sponsons have a place in making the sport safer ... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <dlloyd_at_telus.net> > The rec.boat spams by sponsonspoilsport recently intrigued me enough to > check out Tim's web site. I have not been near it for some time. He has > used quotes and incidents from a number of my articles for SK Mag, out > of context, to promote his rescue device. I caved in and actually > e-mailed him over his misuse. Constructively, I also attempted to > communicate with him on an altruistic level, seeing as how he is on a > apparent-at-first-sight crusade for kayaker safety. For context, I > wanted some information from Tim regarding an article I'm doing up on > the kite sailing kayaker who died. Tim responded with more hyperbole, > and categorically stated my culpability and "strong record of > stupidity". In the same breath, he stated both I and SK Mag as guilty of > murderous action toward innocent people. I never really understood the > meaning of the word spam, being relatively new to e-mail and not ever > getting much in my inbox. Now I understand what Jackie was talking > about. > > I don't know for the life of me why I expected him to respond with > meaningful communication. Even animals and aquatic life are capable of > more meaningful communication and productive intercourse than Tim There is simply no reasoning with Tim, period. He cannot be embarrassed into responsible responses and behavior. He cannot be cajoled. He cannot be _anything_ into changing his ways and behavior. All you probably have succeeded in doing, as many of have done before (including me), is to give him more words to twist for use in his spam. We learned that lesson in the waning days of Wavelength that led to the emergence of PaddleWise. Back then, no amount of appeal to him succeeded in curbing his vitriolic, outrageous messages that clogged up the arteries of communication among people who wanted to deal with important issues revolving around paddling safety. Looking at his statements from back then and those currently on the rec.boats. paddle newsgroups, he has only gotten worse. Tim is a classic case of someone who feels he has the answer to something and promulgates his beliefs. Then, at some point, the road takes a fork. One fork leads down a path of enthusiasm and strong advocacy balanced with some sense of realism and, I hope, good humor; many of us do follow that one like me with folding kayaks or Matt with the paddle float. The other fork goes down a path of zealot aberrant behavior detached from any sense of reason; I really don't know of any other such case in the kayaking world...Tim appears unique. I guess the only thing to be done is something like what you did, and what Tim Jackson of Canoe & Kayak did recently on behalf of his magazine, was to ask him to desist from misrepresenting your positions and writings. It won't stop him but it does establish a paper trail of protest that some day might be used in some proceedings if it ever comes to that. If you don't object, then he can claim that, in your silence, you agreed with his interpretation of facts and consequences. I am surprised that no newspaper or mag has picked up on Tim and his cyberspace mayhem. It would make a terrific article. It has all the makings of one: a persistent assault over numerous Internet forums for some 4 years as well as an act that has been running longer on the sea kayak trade stage dating back to a symposium in 1994 or 1995 when he had to be escorted out of a talk in which he was abusing the speaker. Boy, am I glad he is one case of craziness that can't be blamed on Americans. He is a fellow Canadian, Doug! :-) ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If you filter Tim out you do not hardly even know he is there. If I could get people to quit writing about him I would not even know he was there at all. I sometimes think people write bitches about him, instead of filtering him out, because they have nothing better to do. All their bitches do is add to his bandwidth. <Bill> Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska. N 53°51.140' W 166°30.228' (WGS 84) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <dlloyd_at_telus.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; "Tom" <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How does one get into r*c.bo*t. p*ddl*? > Tom said: > > <<<< > Thanks to all for the backchannel tips on how to get to > rec.boat.paddle. I got there from google, but apparently > there are a few ways to get there. There was loads of > sp*ns*n ranting. Has this been non-stop for the last 5 > years? WOW! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Doug Lloyd" <dlloyd_at_telus.net>; <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; "Tom" <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How does one get into r*c.bo*t. p*ddl*? A guiding principle in dealing with people such as Tim is one that I learned the hard way. That principle is : Do not not waste your time and mental health trying to reason with unreasonable people. I spent three years trying to be reasonable with a neighbor who proved to be completely unreasonable and mean. I finally took her to court. Had I taken steps in that direction from the start she may have corrected her behavior after seeing that the game was up. I have since learned that several other neighbors had run-ins with her as did the mail carrier and the UPS guy. One or two attempts at reasoning is good. But, when a person proves to be incapable of rational thought, you might as well bang your head against the proverbial wall as to continue attempts at meaningful dialogue. Bill, who really hates loud barking whether from dogs or people. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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