"ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>>>The encounter with the marauding jetskis is one reason why having a marine radio with you is a must. If you can make immediate contact with enforcement units while something like this is going on, it increases the odds of catching the jetskis. But even if you have not gotten through to anyone, fake it. If the jetskiers had seen you holding a radio to your ear and mouthing out words and nodding your head as if you were talking to the authorities, they would have zoomed away fast.<<<<<< Good idea Ralph, I was also wondering if the kayakers were carrying flares. Shooting one off early on in the incident would signal to the jetskiers that you considered this an emergency situation and were seeking outside help. The jetskiers may have thought or were pretending that they were just playing some fun water games. Timed right, so the jetskier couldn't miss seeing the flare and he would later have a hard time claiming in court that this was all just in fun if he continued. Who knows, the jetskier may have also seen the old Red Skelton movie I saw on TV, as a kid, where the bad guy chasing him has Red cornered. All Red has is a flare gun he has just found in the attic or boating warehouse. Red says something like "Come one step closer and you'll be a glowworm". Not that I'd advocate anything like this as one of Audrey Sutherland's (and my dad's) dual purpose uses for every item. (One paddler in "Deep Trouble" did get a fire going with his flares though, so I guess flares already have a dual purpose.) I would never directly threaten a boater or jetskier with one but after shooting off a flare for help they would be legally obligated to be rendering assistance (not continuing to race around and buzz you). However, they might also realize that you might not be as helpless as you had at first seemed and they might back off from their behavior without any real or implied threats being made on your part, only a simple call for help in an emergency. Some Jetskiers may see kayakers as the self-righteous spoilsports that have limited their access to the marshes and backwaters that kayakers can freely go into but jetskiers have been banned from. Finding members of the kayak gang on their own (open water) turf they may have wanted to send the kayakers fleeing back to their own territory where they wouldn't be in the jetskiers way. Young men think this way. Something about testosterone poisoning I think. Others like Doug and myself channel this poison into battles with the elements. My answer to Craig's question to Doug, which was in part: >>>>>You acknowledge the risk of what you're doing, you abhor what you're doing at times, yet you're still drawn to it; are you willing to share with us why you think you are drawn to storm paddling? <<<<<<< testosterone poisoning. The first time I ever went canoeing was in high school. My buddy and I rented a canoe and took a couple of girls paddling on Lake Washington. A water-skier repeatedly buzzed and sprayed us. One time he came close enough that I realized I could probably break his legs with an edge on baseball bat swing with my paddle. I had to restrain myself from doing so to avoid escalating the situation further (he had an awful big boat for back-up). On the next pass he came so close that he lost his balance from turning so sharply trying to avoid a collision with us that he fell over a little distance away. We tried to get the boats serial number as it picked him up but weren't able to. We later got close enough to the boat as they were loading it on the trailer. WE got the serial number and filed a complaint with the Harbor Patrol. However nothing happened as the other paddler's dad was a cop. When he heard about the incident he withdrew or quashed the complaint, telling his son that it would be more trouble than it was worth to press charges. That kind of pissed me off because the rest of us weren't consulted about what we wanted to do. I chalk this one up to testosterone poisoning as well. The presence of the female sex probably set off their idiotic "show-off" reflex that must be obeyed. One of my daughters in college complained that it was hard to take guys seriously who thought you would be impressed by how much they could drink without passing out. I don't condone threats but I have been known to hold my ski poles pointed up the hill while standing to discourage the wannabie crazies from buzzing me too close. My plan was that if they were about to collided with me I'd to use the poles in a sort of a bullfighter's picador move to leap over the other skiers body as they went under me. Never got to see if it would work though, maybe the sharp four pronged tips on the ski poles discouraged them from getting close enough. Gee, thanks for the tip about Rec.Boats.Paddle. Doug. I learned on the Deja vu archives that I'm both a fool AND a murderer (apparently somewhere on the level of Jim Jones) but also not really the inventor of the murderous paddlefloat that has killed hundreds if not a thousand already. Yep, it made my day. Thanks again Doug, you are always so helpful. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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The interchange regarding Wes Boyd's hairy encounter with some dangerous jetskiers has had a lot of food for thought. Here are some of mine: 1. I was happy to see in today's NY Times that a court has basically upheld the ban on jet skis in national parks, most importantly the extention of the ban from currently a large number of national parks to _all_ national parks next year. It would take quite a setback for this ban not to go into effect fully. The importance of such a ban in national parks should be clear. This action on the federal level should embolden states in their efforts to curtail jetskis and give them some good arguments to do so. 2. Not all jet skiers are bad. We tend to lump them into one big pot but many are responsible and generous in incidents. Last year we got a reminder of this from one PaddleWise couple in which they cited an incident in which the wife was having symptoms of cardiac problems while on the water and a jetskier happened along and whisked her to shore faster than they could ever have hoped to do via kayak towing kayak. Around here except for one real major incident near the Intrepid carrier museum, most of us have found jetskiers not to be much of a problem. They tend to give us a wide berth (one tends to thread lightly amongst ourselves in NYC encounters anyway as a part of street survival savvy: watch who you mess with...they may react with a surprising fury and not be mid-West or Canadian polite about things). I have actually had them slow down as they pass a group of kayakers. And they do wave in a fellow sharer of the waters gesture and I wave or nod back. Jet skis themselves however are inherently bad because of noise, air and water pollution. 3) The legal enforcement problem. At least around here, law enforcement is on the watch for violators in what happens on the waters by speed boats, jet skiers and others in how they interact with other traffic. We meet with them in some harbor committees and they stress the problems of dealing with offenders is not just in apprehending them but in also what happens when the cases come before a judge. Local judges are simply not versed in maritime legal codes and often a person gets away with a light reprimand. If it were a violation on land, i.e. a road traffic offense, the offender would have the book thrown at them but in a maritime the situation gets fuzzy in the mind of the judges. There is an effort on the city and state level to improve the courts' perception of maritime offenders. I guess the problem stems that for centuries maritime violations were on a grand scale of interstate commerce and international law in which jwell-versed jurists and jurisprudence exist. 4. Turf sharing. Increasingly our waterways and bustling maritime shipping ports are seeing more recreational users of the water and greater commercial ferry and dinner cruises. Everyone has a right to use the water (although jet skiers may be on the slippery slope toward losing it starting with all national parks). My suggestion is to treat every other user with respect. I know it is hard to do this when you are launching at or near a busy ramp where motorboaters and jetskiers are crowding the area. I know kayakers who get snooty and turn their noses up about their fellow water-users, an attitude of looks and body language that shines like a neon sign. I think a friendly attitude at that common meeting ground (ramps) is a good thing to foster. For example with jet skiers, a smile, a question about the equipment they use and its commonality with ours (PFDs, safety tethers, docking lines, etc.), kidding about the differences in power (1 human power vs. 40 HP) go a long way to making us all recognize that we are all human beings out there trying to enjoy the waters. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:18 AM 4/14/01 -0400, ralph diaz wrote: >The interchange regarding Wes Boyd's hairy encounter with some dangerous >jetskiers has had a lot of food for thought. Here are some of mine: > (a good point snipped) > >2. Not all jet skiers are bad. We tend to lump them into one big pot but >many are responsible and generous in incidents. Last year we got a reminder >of this from one PaddleWise couple in which they cited an incident in which >the wife was having symptoms of cardiac problems while on the water and a >jetskier happened along and whisked her to shore faster than they could ever >have hoped to do via kayak towing kayak. Around here except for one real >major incident near the Intrepid carrier museum, most of us have found >jetskiers not to be much of a problem. They tend to give us a wide berth >(one tends to thread lightly amongst ourselves in NYC encounters anyway as a >part of street survival savvy: watch who you mess with...they may react with >a surprising fury and not be mid-West or Canadian polite about things). I >have actually had them slow down as they pass a group of kayakers. And they >do wave in a fellow sharer of the waters gesture and I wave or nod back. >Jet skis themselves however are inherently bad because of noise, air and >water pollution. This is the tough part. While most of us find jetskis irritating, I think, I've really not had any serious problems, except for this time. I've had many friendly, neutral, or curious encounters. All it takes is one bad apple to spoil the barrel. (another real good point snipped, mostly because I can't add much to it.) > >4. Turf sharing. Increasingly our waterways and bustling maritime shipping >ports are seeing more recreational users of the water and greater commercial >ferry and dinner cruises. Everyone has a right to use the water (although >jet skiers may be on the slippery slope toward losing it starting with all >national parks). My suggestion is to treat every other user with respect. Absolutely. The Golden Rule still works. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:25 PM 4/13/01 -0700, Matt Broze wrote: > >Good idea Ralph, I was also wondering if the kayakers were carrying flares. We were, but only those piddly little skyblazers, just to be legal for the odd occasion when we go onto the great lakes. They were not close to hand. >Shooting one off early on in the incident would signal to the jetskiers that >you considered this an emergency situation and were seeking outside help. >The jetskiers may have thought or were pretending that they were just >playing some fun water games. Timed right, so the jetskier couldn't miss >seeing the flare and he would later have a hard time claiming in court that >this was all just in fun if he continued. Hadn't thoguht of that aspect. Hmmmmmm . . . (snip) >However, >they might also realize that you might not be as helpless as you had at >first seemed and they might back off from their behavior without any real or >implied threats being made on your part, only a simple call for help in an >emergency. I wouldn't want to bed that the jerk would have seen it that way. >Some Jetskiers may see kayakers as the self-righteous spoilsports that have >limited their access to the marshes and backwaters that kayakers can freely >go into but jetskiers have been banned from. Finding members of the kayak >gang on their own (open water) turf they may have wanted to send the >kayakers fleeing back to their own territory where they wouldn't be in the >jetskiers way. Young men think this way. Something about testosterone I don't see that as a factor in this case, but there are other areas where it's a definite problem. Voyagers National Park is a good example. There have been organized protests, in which the governor (remember, that is Minnesota . . .) has participated. This could be an increasing problem with the extension of national park and other jetski bans. >poisoning I think. Others like Doug and myself channel this poison into >battles with the elements. My answer to Craig's question to Doug, which was >in part: >>>>>>You acknowledge the risk of what you're doing, you abhor what you're >doing >at times, yet you're still drawn to it; are you willing to share with us why >you think you are drawn to storm paddling? <<<<<<< > >testosterone poisoning. You might have something there . . . (snip of most of a good story of antoher water terrorism incident) >consulted about what we wanted to do. I chalk this one up to testosterone >poisoning as well. The presence of the female sex probably set off their >idiotic "show-off" reflex that must be obeyed. Was definitely a factor in this case. >One of my daughters in >college complained that it was hard to take guys seriously who thought you >would be impressed by how much they could drink without passing out. My daughter has made similar comments, thank goodness. I must have done something right. >Gee, thanks for the tip about Rec.Boats.Paddle. Doug. I learned on the Deja >vu archives that I'm both a fool AND a murderer (apparently somewhere on the >level of Jim Jones) but also not really the inventor of the murderous >paddlefloat that has killed hundreds if not a thousand already. Yep, it made >my day. Thanks again Doug, you are always so helpful. For some reason, I didn't post this incident on RBP. No point in adding fuel to that fire. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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