I'm still dumbfounded by the guy who says he paddles without a PFD, paddle float, wet suit, etc., etc. rather, relying on his expert skills and knowledge to get him out of any possibly life threatening situation. I knew a free-style rock climber like that once....., died in a fall at the age of 28. Rouge waves, unseen rocks, sudden changes in the weather, all can occur quickly and when least expected. Even the best preparations are sometimes still inadequate. Why take such a HUGE chance? Remember, birds fall off of limbs too. Ron *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron and Barb" <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:14 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] No protection > I'm still dumbfounded by the guy who says he paddles without a PFD, paddle > float, wet suit, etc., etc. rather, relying on his expert skills and > knowledge to get him out of any possibly life threatening situation. I knew a > free-style rock climber like that once....., died in a fall at the age of 28. > Rouge waves, unseen rocks, sudden changes in the weather, all can occur > quickly and when least expected. Even the best preparations are sometimes > still inadequate. Why take such a HUGE chance? Remember, birds fall off of > limbs too. > I don't know who this guy is; maybe he has an answer; maybe he's some type of adrenaline junky who feels he has a right to kill himself; I don't know. I worry about the rescuers and the message this guy sends to non-kayakers and kayakers alike if he every becomes the proverbial "bird falling of the limb". Safe kayaking, Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig MacKinnon wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron and Barb" <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com> > > I'm still dumbfounded by the guy who says he paddles without a PFD, paddle > > float, wet suit, etc., etc. rather, relying on his expert skills and > > knowledge to get him out of any possibly life threatening situation. > > [snip] > I don't know who this guy is; maybe he has an answer; maybe he's some type > of adrenaline junky who feels he has a right to kill himself; I don't know. > I worry about the rescuers and the message this guy sends to non-kayakers > and kayakers alike if he every becomes the proverbial "bird falling off the > limb". "This guy" is Colin Calder, of the UK. Colin does not need the rest of us to defend his position. Even so, I think I know where he is coming from. In context, he asserted that there were times when he did not need all the gear the consensus on this list feels is "required" (or, "prudent"). An element of his argument is that the gear does not make you safe: your skills and judgement are much more important. His position is being distorted somewhat. Let me elaborate: My son is a high-standard free-climber, though he never solos without rope protection, unlike Ron's example (I snipped that part). Even so, sometimes he has to "violate" a high-angle rock-climber's guideline for protection, in order to do a particularly aesthetic or interesting climb. As his father (and a retired climber, albeit of a standard well below his!), I accept his behavior. He generally uses good judgement, as I think Colin does. But, there are times when a casual observer would question it. **For my son** some of his high-jinks on rock are akin in risk to the risk **I** take when I walk along a cracked sidewalk: I might trip, fall, and suffer a life-threatening head injury. Even so, I do not wear a helmet when I walk a cracked sidewalk. I think it is OK for a paddler of Colin's (presumed) skill level to paddle as he does. Those who translate his style into an endorsement that "everyone -- i.e., me -- should paddle that way" are responsible for their own behavior. If we see a drunken driver, do we emulate that behavior? Most of us do not. Finally, the increased risk potential associated with his behavior for **rescue** personnel is not significantly different from what already exists from the societally-endorsed activities of pleasure boaters, commercial fishers, and other commercial marine traffic. I live next to a very dangerous river bar (the Columbia River), which is transited by many thousands of vessels every year, demanding a couple hundred rescue sorties by the Coast Guard, each entailing some risk for their personnel. In a typical year, the Coast Guard responds to one or two or three incidents involving sea kayakers or similar plesure-seekers. We and our activities are imperceptible in promoting their risk. Granted, if there were throngs attempting to paddle their Keowees across the bar, that would change. I just don't see the occasional Colin Calder (or Doug Lloyd) with high skills attempting a bar crossing, or something equally risky, as a significant increase in risk to the Coast Guard. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Just a few thoughts. I think we need to keep in mind that whenever we engage in these sports, there is always a risk. We can try and minimize them, but they do exist. The climbing example hits close to home. A couple weeks ago I peeled off while lead climbing after missing the second clip. Basic translation is that I fell and landed on my bacK. I wound up taking most of the skin off behind my knee. Luckily I was indoors at the gym and hit a padded surface or the results could have been a lot worse. Did I know the risk was there? Yes. Did I do everything to avoid falling? Yes. Of course accidents (and slippery fingers) happen and I fell at the most dangerous point of a climb. I think many of us access the risks before we head out and how we deal with the perceived risks may be different than someone else in the identical situation. I *do* think it is well within our place to offer advice/criticism when we see something we consider "bad" judgement -- "hey, it's pretty choppy and the water is cold, so maybe you want to wear more than a bikini", or "hey, that second clip is dicey, I sure wouldn't want to hang from one arm and try and stick it". We also have to accept that someone is equally within their rights to tell us to go to hell. We can then laugh when they freeze or fall on their ass. -Patrick (walking again) At 9:07 AM -0700 4/4/01, Dave Kruger wrote: >[SNIP] >Let me elaborate: My son is a high-standard free-climber, though he never >solos without rope protection, unlike Ron's example (I snipped that part). >Even so, sometimes he has to "violate" a high-angle rock-climber's guideline >for protection, in order to do a particularly aesthetic or interesting climb. >As his father (and a retired climber, albeit of a standard well below his!), I >accept his behavior. He generally uses good judgement, as I think Colin does. >But, there are times when a casual observer would question it. **For my son** >some of his high-jinks on rock are akin in risk to the risk **I** take when I >walk along a cracked sidewalk: I might trip, fall, and suffer a >life-threatening head injury. Even so, I do not wear a helmet when I walk a >cracked sidewalk. [SNIP] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Craig MacKinnon[SMTP:elroca_at_earthlink.net] > > I don't know who this guy is; maybe he has an answer; maybe he's some type > of adrenaline junky who feels he has a right to kill himself; I don't > know. > I worry about the rescuers and the message this guy sends to non-kayakers > and kayakers alike if he every becomes the proverbial "bird falling of the > limb". > This past weekend I was on the water Saturday. The water temp was 46, the air temp was 42, overcast and threatening rain but no wind. Upon returning to the area of the put-in, I spied 2 kayakers quite a distance in front of me. They stopped, then got out of their boats on a sandbar in the middle of the bay, hung out for a few minutes, then reentered their boats and started progressing in the direction I was headed. I assume they were unfamiliar with this tidal area during low water because it is pretty shoaly. If you are there at the wrong time, you either get to walk your boat a distance or 'crab' along until near exhaustion. They were still a good distance to the NW of me (I chose to stay in the deeper water), but at this point I could recognize the following: 1) both were paddling Sit-On-Tops, 2) neither had on PFDs, 3) neither had on cold water gear (generally you can tell by color and fit). I could tell they were headed to the same launching spot I was. I really didn't want to deal with this situation but knew there was no way I could just ignore it. I pulled up to watch the second boat be carried from the water and set on the car which was located in a different area than mine. The paddler appeared to be wet in spots (legs, back). Both guys disappeared for a few minutes to reappear a few minutes later in different clothes. There was a bystander on land that engaged the two paddlers in a seemingly inquisitive and happy conversation which I intreputed to be about how to kayak, and then they drove away. The good news is it would appear that these two learned a cold water lesson on their own in a survivable situation (close to the launch, close to a change of clothes, close to home). The bad news is that the bystander (and others boaters there) has now learned that it is fine to go paddling in a SOT at the end of March with no special gear, just get out of the car and go. I hate this time of year even though I love spring. You know what I mean. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger said: <big snip> I think it is OK for a paddler of Colin's (presumed) skill level to paddle as he does. Those who translate his style into an endorsement that "everyone -- i.e., me -- should paddle that way" are responsible for their own behavior. If we see a drunken driver, do we emulate that behavior? Most of us do not. Dave, et al, I paddled for years without a dry suit, typically wearing a UK Javelin full-body fleece suit under gusseted rain gear by Henry-LLoyd (expensive yatchty stuff). I also tried a variety of other items, including various wool arrangements. I rented wet suits for some of the hairy stuff I used to do in the early eighties. I must admit that the real reason I eventually splurged on an all-out custom farmer-john, was more for comfort. Getting wet and clammy in other gear was such a pain. And talk about stink! Man alive, even the residents of Saltspring Island smelt better than me (inside joke). At times, out-and-out infections and other bacterial nasties would inhibit paddling trips. A wet suit is so easy to use, clean, maintain, and otherwise offer a good range of temp adjustments over the course of a year (and yes, they can stink too). No, not good for the dead of winter or the 90 degree days in August, but then I'm talking about the majority of times, not specific times. And putting on wet suites in the am, in the winter, on an overnighter or longer is torture for all but the Swedes. Having said all that, perhaps dry suits do have an advantage for women, as vaginal infections, etc., are a real problem on longer back-country trips, even if it isn't a pleasant subject to mention. I know some ladies who have had real problems, and in all but summer extremes, a dry suit can be an asset. As far as Colin is concerned, just remember mates, he is in good company in the UK with his clothing arrangement. And wet suits _are_ common over there enough, when extra challenging adventures are sought, for surfing, etc. -- from the feedback I get. Many UK paddlers would consider an average North American "challenging" situation as fairly routine over there. Its all kind of relative. But again, the argument from the other side of the pond is that the non-wetsuit wearer is more comfortable. I just want to say that I find that isn't true for _me_, and I've put a lot of hard-core nautical miles in over the years. Even shorts in the summer leave cool legs against the hull of the kayak in cold summer water -- at least here in the PNW. And, skills and attitudes to safety being equal, one is still safer in terms of back-up protection, wearing immersion apparel. Geeze Louise, how many more deaths do we have to have hear in the PNW to prove that point. Immersion apparel can buy you precious minutes of functionality, while you open and use some of the items out of your "tool box" of rescue tricks when you (and possible partner(s) ) have screwed up or got caught off guard. You _can_ get caught off-guard. Some of you who have not been paddling long better understand this reality, and have some usable, practiced back-ups or navigational egress plans. Dave also said: <snip> In a typical year, the Coast Guard responds to one or two or three incidents involving sea kayakers or similar plesure-seekers. We and our activities are imperceptible in promoting their risk. Granted, if there were throngs attempting to paddle their Keowees across the bar, that would change. I just don't see the occasional Colin Calder (or Doug Lloyd) with high skills attempting a bar crossing, or something equally risky, as a significant increase in risk to the Coast Guard. Well Dave, I'll be headed down in May to see you and then head out to the CR bar. I was going to go next week (got a week off both months - plus the whole of August too!), but decided the bar might be a little bit nicer to me closer to mid spring. Of course, one never knows, April can be dead flat -- well, a small bump anyway. My point is, we all know what happened the last time I tried something dangerous in April (two years ago, April 10th), and as Joan pointed out on another post, we need to learn from our mistakes. You scope something out first, then go back again if you want to try it under more challenging conditions. I also wanted to add to the discussion before I cloister myself this weekend on a hot edict, that I don't see how people can pin a paddler down on this whole risk thing. The book "Target Risk" should be a must read for all paddlers. Having said that, driving at 80 miles per hour in the rain on the highway at night during rush hour thinking you are in control is a lot different than risk-taking on the water for all but the clueless -- or the testostorone charged individual seeking to have that part of the anatomy that produces said testosterone strangulated by mother nature. The pain from the pull on the paddle on one's arms, the biting sea breeze nipping at one's face, frigid fingers numb from salt spray by defacto immersion in waves, and the heart palpitations burbling to ones throat all give immediate feedback to mind and body --- firing off the synapses in the brain, causing one to halt, turn back, or accept the risk with the obvious connotation that you are proceeding with your eyes wide open. Typically, on a multi-day excursion on open water, remote wilderness, I put a high degree of effort into route planning, thinking through escape routes, keeping a close weather eye, etc., etc., and generally ensuring a reserve of physical and emotional energy (both being equally important). Yes, there are times when I will push the envelope at a certain juncture by heading into a dangerous rock garden, or choosing to navigate a headland during big hydraulics for a personal challenge or whatever. I minimize the risks by not engaging in that level of risk and intensity of commitment all the time on the water. Dave, I appreciate your analogy vis a vis your "rock" star son's descriptions. You are an asset to this list Dave, to our sport, and to dispelling the notion that Americans are too arrogant for their own good (common misconception up here). Do I get a free dinner down there, now, Dave? 8-) Doug Lloyd (who still thinks he's safer than the average paddler he sees out there, and not because of all his back-up gear, but because he can get out of almost anything with just boat, body, and paddle. Everything else is just precautionary back-up or pecuniary balast). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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