Today, one of our guys turned away a person who wanted to paddle from a club dock. The person was wearing neoprene fishing waders and our waters are at just a bit over 40 degrees. The fellow said that he was going to stay within 20 feet of shore, but the shoreline in the area has few beaches where one could pull up; most of it is high seawall. My guy felt badly for turning the guy away and wondered if he did the right thing. I gave him a resounding YES! A capsize while in waders would make for a devil of a self-rescue and even a difficult assisted rescue. I know. I once had to pull a fellow into a kayak who was wearing paddling pants with neoprene ankle closures. It was real difficult. I didn't look closely at what he was wearing but when we finally landed, he released the ankle closures and half the river poured out. Also, all that trapped water inside the waders would not warm up all that fast and the fellow, even if gotten back into his kayak, would have been miserable if not hypothermic. I seem to recall hearing of paddlers in our great Northwest paddling in waders or gumshoes or wellingtons. Always struck me as odd things to wear and likely to be a problem in climbing back aboard. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, ralph diaz wrote: > A capsize while in waders would make > for a devil of a self-rescue and even a difficult assisted rescue. I know. > I once had to pull a fellow into a kayak who was wearing paddling pants with > neoprene ankle closures. It was real difficult. I attended a river safety clinic last fall in Western North Carolina, at which I knew I would be expected to swim. A lot. I don't have a dry suit, so I wore my neoprene waders with a drytop and some poly. Worked a treat. Got a little water in after 1/2 hour or so, but very warm. I have given up paddling pants with neoprene ankles, though. Actually, it's surprising how much water pants with just a little light elastic at the ankles will hold. Steve Cramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Some fly fishermen wear belts on the outside of the waders, as a safety in case they were to fall in swift water. The belt, of course, must be quite tight. It's a good idea for flyfishing, but I can't address it's usefullness to kayaking. You could test it and find out. -- Mike McNally mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Cramer wrote: >I don't have a dry suit, so I wore my neoprene waders with a drytop and >some poly. Worked a treat. Got a little water in after 1/2 hour or so, >but very warm. Yup. I've had the exact same experience. With a double-tunnel drytop, neoprene-tunnel sprayskirt, and a good PFD over top, keeping the layers aligned, I get about 1/2 cup of water after 45 minutes of swimming in flatwater and waves (can't speak for whitewater). I've since glued a "sealer" tunnel to my waders that I can roll together with my drytop's inner tunnel, and get about as wet as I would with a 2-piece drysuit. It's sure nice to wade with the boat into 35*F water and your feet stay toasty! Swimming isn't bad either--after 45 minutes in 40*F water, I only got out because I was bored, not cold. Shawn Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Baker" <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> > Steve Cramer wrote: > >I don't have a dry suit, so I wore my neoprene waders with a drytop > and > >some poly. Worked a treat. Got a little water in after 1/2 hour or so, > > >but very warm. > > Yup. I've had the exact same experience. With a double-tunnel drytop, > neoprene-tunnel sprayskirt, and a good PFD over top, keeping the layers > aligned, I get about 1/2 cup of water after 45 minutes of swimming in > flatwater and waves (can't speak for whitewater). > > I've since glued a "sealer" tunnel to my waders that I can roll > together with my drytop's inner tunnel, and get about as wet as I would > with a 2-piece drysuit. It's sure nice to wade with the boat into 35*F > water and your feet stay toasty! Swimming isn't bad either--after 45 > minutes in 40*F water, I only got out because I was bored, not cold. Out of curiosity, what is the neoprene thickness of the waders? From my understanding of the cold water workshops that have been run down in the Chesapeake area (Greg Welker or Jack Martin correct me if I am wrong), neoprene wet suits faired poorly when tested in 40 degree water for any length of swimming or hanging out in the water. I believe that was in conjunction with drytops. But I never attended these and so can be well off base. This would be a good opening for either of Greg or Jack or any others who were at these events several times to comment on what was generally found in terms of relative comfort and protection from the garments used by participants. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Out of curiosity, what is the neoprene thickness of the waders? "Only" 3mm. > neoprene wet suits faired poorly when tested in 40 degree water for > any length of swimming or hanging out in the water. I believe that >was in conjunction with drytops. But I never attended these and so can > be well off base. I believe that. Waders are warmer than equivalent-thickness wetsuits because they aren't wet inside--less heat is lost due to the fact that (on the inside anyway) dry neoprene conducts less heat than wet neoprene. I have 3mm farmer johns as well, and stop wearing those when the water gets much below 60*F. Oh, and I also had on a pair of medium-weight Capilene long underwear under my waders, which, of course, stayed dry as well. Shawn Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph diaz wrote: > From: "Shawn Baker" <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> > > > Steve Cramer wrote: > > >I don't have a dry suit, so I wore my neoprene waders with a drytop > > and some poly. Worked a treat. > > > > Yup. I've had the exact same experience. With a double-tunnel drytop, > > neoprene-tunnel sprayskirt, and a good PFD over top, keeping the layers > > aligned, I get about 1/2 cup of water after 45 minutes of swimming in > > flatwater and waves (can't speak for whitewater). > > Out of curiosity, what is the neoprene thickness of the waders? From my > understanding of the cold water workshops that have been run down in the > Chesapeake area (Greg Welker or Jack Martin correct me if I am wrong), > neoprene wet suits faired poorly when tested in 40 degree water for any > length of swimming or hanging out in the water. I believe that was in > conjunction with drytops. I think my waders are about 4mm. Maybe 5mm. Definitely thicker than a farmer john. But this setup is not like a wetsuit; more like a drysuit. There's no reason you can't wear a layer of fleece under your waders (and I do), which should give you _much_ more insulation than the same fleece under a layer of coated nylon. The water I was in was not that cold, however, probably around 50F. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cramer" <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> > I think my waders are about 4mm. Maybe 5mm. Definitely thicker than a > farmer john. But this setup is not like a wetsuit; more like a drysuit. > There's no reason you can't wear a layer of fleece under your waders > (and I do), which should give you _much_ more insulation than the same > fleece under a layer of coated nylon. > > The water I was in was not that cold, however, probably around 50F. I seem to recall seeing suits, I think meant for divers or board sailors, that were of one piece with the lower part, from the waist down made of thick neoprene, and the upper part, the torso and arms, made of waterproof nylon with a waterproof closure and latex at wrists and necks. In a sense it is what you guys have done in mating a dry top to a neoprene wader lower. The secret is in achieving a good seal in the middle. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph Diaz: Out of curiosity, what is the neoprene thickness of the waders? From my understanding of the cold water workshops that have been run down in the Chesapeake area (Greg Welker or Jack Martin correct me if I am wrong), neoprene wet suits faired poorly when tested in 40 degree water for any length of swimming or hanging out in the water. Ralph Hoehn: Might the answer lie in the different execution of the respective neoprene garments: "Wetsuits" are tight to restrict the flow f water as much as possible. "Waders" are loose fitting, permitting layers of under-garments. Best regards, Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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