Re: [Paddlewise] Forward paddling, paddle length and cocked wrists

From: <HTERVORT_at_aol.com>
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:52:18 EDT
In a message dated 5/11/01 9:14:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mkayaks_at_oz.net 
writes:

>  Harold wrote:
>  >>>>Amen, Brother.  Though even ten years ago, I could pull my body apart
>  with a  220 Camano.  My body is built more for the 220 Little Dipper.  
Anything
>  larger and I have to be careful or I'll strip my gears.<<<<
MATT: 
>  Is it so hard to be careful? I've always wondered why not just not yank so
>  hard at first if using a stiff shaft or other paddle that folks claim 
tears them up.

Again, it's that gear thing.  I'll pull as hard as the blade size/slippage 
allows me to in the quest to get there quickly (sometimes I'm actually 
goal-oriented).  It's not a "yank" in the sense of being abrupt, just a 
smooth but intense application of power.  If the blade slips more, I get a 
little less drive and thus strain on my muscles and joints, but get quickly 
through the stroke and on to the next -- lighter but more rapid impulses of 
power that keep my momentum more constant and provide the same speed with 
less strain on the arms.  At least, that is my understanding and experience 
of the differences.

Matt:
>  Are you going to trying to say that the wind helps an unfeathered paddler
>  going down wind?  <Enlightened and persuasive argument snipped>

The differences are -- as you note, small and disputable, but please don't 
totally destroy my long-held biases on the strength of good reason, for gosh 
sakes! :^)
Actually, I still feel that the advantages of the feathered paddle (even at 
90*) is diminished by my predilection for keeping the paddle blade low (shaft 
angle at or below a 45* angle to the water surface).  The wind gradient is 
fairly high in the first few feet above the water, and the blade seems to be 
exposed to a lower wind speed than in a high-bladed power stroke.  But 
keeping a very low angle means you can't bend at the elbow to change blade 
angle, and low-hand control only works for me if I bend or raise the elbow.  
This means that wrist bend comes back into play at the low paddle angles and 
again results in wrist problems. 

Matt:  
>  Werner Paddles used to correctly (I believe) explain that their narrower
>  "Little Dipper" paddles had a longer edge and the turbulence around that
>  longer edge increased the drag (grip on the water) for more power. If this
>  is true the narrower paddle with the same blade area should be affected 
more
>  by the wind.

I once read an explanation by an engineer who championed this idea that it is 
the drag caused by the vortices that really generates our grip on the water, 
and it fit in with other explanations I'd read about sails and wings and 
things.  He said that if you compared two 100 square-inch blades -- one 
one-inch wide, the other 10 inches wide, the first would have 202 lineal 
inches of edge while the second 40 inches of edge, and the first would have a 
good deal more grip in the water.  But it was his contention that (for some 
reason I don't remember -- probably having to do with the fluid densities), 
that the aspect ration of the blade had the opposite effect in the wind -- 
the thinner blade would be pushed around less.  Anyone have a hard scientific 
explanation for this?


>  Later in the same brochure they said the Little Dipper slipped more in the
>  water so was easier on the joints. I don't think they can have it both 
ways,

Perhaps they were comparing to the same-length Camano?  The Camano has IIRC 
15% more blade area, while the LD has more edge length, but the center of 
force of the Camano would be further away from the fulcrum due to the 
wider/shorter blade configuration, so It seems reasonable that the Camano 
might have more drive for the overall length.  My own simple tests gave me 
10% fewer strokes over a set distance using the Camano vs the same-length LD. 
 But no -- you can't have it both ways unless comparing apples and oranges.  
Still, I seem to do better with a 230 "Skinny" Dipper (old-style LD) than 
with a 220 Camano for longer distances, even though my own testing says they 
are similar in power.  Also, I like the 230 "Skinny" Dipper much more than 
either the 220 or 230 new LD -- possibly because of less twisting moment on 
the blade.

Matt
>  I've tried using a 200cm river paddle but the stroke rate was just too fast
>  (during a fast cruising speed) to be comfortable and maintain coordination
>  when I was tired. Sort of like too low a gear on a bicycle.

You do need to get the correct gear.  However, just like in bicycling, you 
can train your muscles to operate at a higher, lower-stress rate than is 
currently comfortable for you.  It takes some work to learn, though. 
>  
>  I once tested the Skinny Dipper, Camano and San Juan paddles in 220 and 230
>  lengths over a short, closed course by paddling with one after the other at
>  what a perceived-constant rate of output.  My findings were that I took 10%
>  fewer strokes as I jumped from blade to blade, going from smallest to
>  largest, and also 10% fewer strokes going from the 220 to the 230 in each
>  blade type.  I did not notice the slight increase in stress on my body
>  during any of the tests.<<<<<

Matt:  
>  What increase in stress would there be, you said you were maintaining a
>  perceived constant output.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.  By "constant output" I was referring to 
heart/lung stress -- the amount of (perceived) work output my body was doing. 
 By "stress on my body" I was referring to the strain on my muscles and 
joints.  
I didn't detect the stress during those test, but during paddles exceeding a 
few miles, the stress on my arms becomes very evident when I maintain the 
same level of heart/lung stress.




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Received on Mon May 14 2001 - 15:58:17 PDT

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