> Hi! > > I'm thinking of buying Khatsalano (not S type!) kayak to extend the > destinations of paddling. Have you been experienced with this kayak? How > can it be compared to the conventional fiber-glass? > > Especially I'm interested in the following issues: > > 1. Is it easy for leaning? I hate those stable boats that you must > struggle for leaning or rolling. > 2. Is it fast enough? > 3. How does it behave in rough sea: storms, strong winds, breaking waves, > surfing, etc. In general I don't want to buy this type of kayak for > surfing, but I need to know its limitations. Let's say, what is the > maximal height of breaking wave Khats will stand (fully loaded)? In rough > sea, do you feel any differences between Khats and fiber-glass kayak of > the same dimensions? > 4. Is it strong enough to absorb impacts like: rocks, corals? > 5. If damaged, how easily it can be for repairing? > 6. What are those float bags? > 7. Is it worth to buy a used one? Did Feathercraft changed its technology > in the recent years for this type of kayak? > 8. In general: is it worth to buy Khats? Isn't it too big compromise? > > Thank you, > > Michael Hoichman > > www.envy.nu/hoichman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/8/01 8:21:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mhoichman_at_Banter.com writes: > I'm thinking of buying Khatsalano (not S type!) kayak to extend the > > destinations of paddling. Have you been experienced with this kayak? I've owned an S and currently paddle a std. Khats. How > > can it be compared to the conventional fiber-glass? > > For the same general size/type, slightly lighter, about as fast on flat water, probably faster in seas, a bit more portable. > > Especially I'm interested in the following issues: > > > > 1. Is it easy for leaning? Yes. And, if you want it to be a bit on the touchy side, you can under-inflate or deflate the sponsons. > > 2. Is it fast enough? For me, yes. Depends on what you mean by fast enough. Compares to the CD Solstices or Gulfstream, NWK Synergy, WS Arctic Hawk, VCP boats. > > 3. How does it behave in rough sea: storms, strong winds, breaking waves, > > surfing, etc. Haven't had either in really bad stuff, but I think your skill is always going to be the part in question, not the boat's seaworthiness or seakindliness. One think you should be aware of is that it is designed to carry a lot of gear weight in the rear, and so (for me at 150 lbs) it has considerable weather helm when paddled unladen. I've never had a rudder for either, and I find that I can trim the boat wonderfully by either attaching the optional strap-on skeg or (my preference) by carrying about 2.5 gallons of water as ballast inside the rear hatch. In general I don't want to buy this type of kayak for > > surfing, but I need to know its limitations. Let's say, what is the > > maximal height of breaking wave Khats will stand (fully loaded)? Again, no real experience, and of course it depends on what you're talking about with regard to wave shape, beach gradient, beach composition, etc. I wouldn't worry launching or landing through 4-6 ft crumbling surf if the beach was sand or gravel and reasonably flat, as long as there wasn't an oh-my-god shore dump. In rough > > sea, do you feel any differences between Khats and fiber-glass kayak of > > the same dimensions? Sure. The Khats flexes like any skin-on-frame kayak. > > 4. Is it strong enough to absorb impacts like: rocks, corals? Bends like a reed before the wind, Grasshopper. Repairs like an Erector Set if you do screw up and prang it. I slammed into the rusted, jagged corner of a submerged metal structure while going full-out with about 90 lbs aboard my old Khats S on my first day in Palau. It set me over 8 inches and stopped me dead within two feet. The Hypalon hull barely showed the spot where it hit. > > 5. If damaged, how easily it can be for repairing? The skin is like patching a bicycle inner tube. The frame is like McGuyvering any frame structure -- duct tape and sticks will probably get you home. > > 6. What are those float bags? Necessary positive flotation -- keeps the boat on the surface when filled with water. > > 7. Is it worth to buy a used one? Did Feathercraft changed its technology > > in the recent years for this type of kayak? Yes, and Yes. > > 8. In general: is it worth to buy Khats? Isn't it too big compromise? > > Yes, definitely. The question of compromise is up to you. Many people own a Khats simply because it paddles nicer (in their opinion) than other available craft. Some want the highest-possible performance in a boat that can be packed on board any mode of conveyance they may wish to use and would give up many things to get that flexibility. I happen to think the Khats is a great performing boat that I choose to paddle most of the time over many other choices I have, which does also pack down into an easily stored and transported package. If I were forced to pick one, and only one boat to use the rest of my life, it would be my Khats. That, in spite of the fact it is expensive, harder to clean and dry after use, and a bit more fussy when it comes to where and when you would really want to use it. Hope this helps you, Michael. There are definitely positive and negative aspects to folders. You need to decide if a folder is right for you. If you do, then the Khats is a great choice. However, we haven't discussed what you are looking for with regard to fit, stability, carrying capacity, and other factors which would qualify the Khats over others, such as the FC K-1. I suggest you also query the bagboater forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bagboater Happy paddling, Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Harold wrote: <If I were forced to pick one, and only one boat to use the rest of my life, it would be my Khats. That, in spite of the fact it is expensive, harder to clean and dry after use, and a bit more fussy when it comes to where and when you would really want to use it. Harold, et al, I have a Khatsalano-S and dry it after use by using two "muffin" fans. These are the flat 6" square fans which are usually mounted on electronics for air cooling. After rinsing the boat, I deflate the sponsons, open the hatches and place the fans in the cockpit. The fans circulate the air from the cockpit out the hatches (the fans are directed to the bow and stern). Using the fans really speeds up the drying time, especially with the Khat's narrow bow and stern. Harry Shin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I also own a standard Khatsalano. Great boat. I've only paddled it about half a dozen times since I moved to Europe but have enjoyed it so far. The seat is annoying as the back is much too high. Makes for a comfortable ride, but lousy for laybacks. I took the plastic back out but still haven't gotten it to the point where it is as comfortable as I'd like it to be. The plastic crossrib behind the seat has a little know on it that drives into my back when sculling and rolling. I did have a very negative experience in the Khats weekend before last. Maybe some of you here can shed some light on it. I set off with a group I have never paddled with for a short day paddle on the North Sea. Everything started out well and the paddling seemed fine. That is, it seemed fine as we were paddling around a point out onto the sea following the coast to our left. Once we were out, I noticed that my boat continued veering to the left - as if she missed land and wished to return. I thought this might be due to the current and chop and mentioned it to a companion and asked if he was experiencing the same problem. He wasn't. Hmmm. Some leaning and paddle compensation helped. Well, it helped for a bit. After a while I noticed that my boat was really going to the left. I mean badly. I was sitting on my edge and having to compensate with a rudder stroke every third stroke. We landed for a break and I moved the very light load I had with me around thinking that the load weight might just be off-centered. So we headed out after a brief rest and into some bigger chop. My boat was leaning just as badly as before and I was falling far behind the group. The chop was getting confused and as I was constantly keeping the boat on its side I was caught unexpected and knocked over by a wave. Surprise. I've never capsized on a trip before so just hung there for a second wondering what the hell happened. Rushed my roll attempt and blew it. I was pissed to be upside down and after two attempts didn't bother anymore and bailed. New lesson learned. When paddling in a new country ask what type of rescue they prefer. Next time I'll do a re-enter and roll because I really hate the British style pull-the-boat-on-the-deck and get squished between two boats x-rescue. I don't like hanging on a bow around while the rescuer does all the work. I'm sure there are reasons to do this type of rescue, though I am not sure what they might be. Just seems slow and excessive and just pulling the bow, flipping it with the person in the water on the stern is quicker, less damaging and actually possible with a loaded boat. Anyway.... Oh, I also hate the term "rescue". Let's go with "aid" or something. So I', flailing about because I can't go in a straight line and getting sore from leaning and compensating and we land again. I load the boat up with about 50lbs of sand in dry bags on the suggesting that the boat is too light unballasted and that must be the reason she's listing. I don't entirely buy this, I am guessing that the frame is slightly bent. See, what I didn't mention before is that we drove two hours down to the trip put-in and as the Khats still takes me forever to build, I car-topped it. They use these strange, to me anyways, sideways stacker-thingies here. The boat was on its right side for the trip down. Seemed like a frame bent to the right would turn left in the water. Any of you designer/builders want to comment? We got back in the water and the ballast made the boat worse. This, to me, confirmed my suspicion that it was the frame. Seems like more hull in the water, more turn. It was so bad I am fairly sure that I could have gone in a complete circle with ten paddle strokes. We got to a small beach cafe and I bailed from the trip and discovered I had caught a cold. I loaded the boat on the other side of the car for the trip back (well, three hours later after sitting around in a cafe with nothing to read. Next lesson, always bring a book in a dry bag). We got back to the club house where I unloaded the boat, kicked it a few times, shouted and shook my ineffectual fists in the air for emphasis and left. I haven't had a chance to work on the boat since then due to general busi/lazi/bitterness. The boat looks true so I am not sure if it is the frame. My other thought is that the sponsons might be un-equally inflated. This is a Khats regular with the smaller sponsons, but that still seems like it could be responsible. I'll report back once I finally have a chance to work on the boat weekend after next (I've got visitors coming tomorrow), but would love to hear any thoughts, ideas etc on the problem before I start my investigations. Worst thing about the experience, the people I was paddling with have never paddled with me before and have outlawed me ever bringing the Khats on a trip again unless I get a rudder for it. Annoying, as it is my only boat here and I still don't think the boat needs a rudder, nor do I think it has anything to do with my paddling style (which was also implied). OK, that's off my chest. Any thoughts? Nice boat though. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Patrick, On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:29:34 +0200 Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> wrote: > Some leaning and paddle compensation helped. Well, it helped for a > bit. After a while I noticed that my boat was really going to the > left. I mean badly. I was sitting on my edge and having to compensate > with a rudder stroke every third stroke. We landed for a break and I > moved the very light load I had with me around thinking that the load > weight might just be off-centered. > [snip] > > See, what I didn't mention before is that we drove two hours down to > the trip put-in and as the Khats still takes me forever to build, I > car-topped it. They use these strange, to me anyways, sideways > stacker-thingies here. The boat was on its right side for the trip > down. Seemed like a frame bent to the right would turn left in the > water. Any of you designer/builders want to comment? Did you look inside the boat, if the frame is off-centered? I own an K1 and I transport the boat a lot and for longer times in these "stacker-thingies", which are mounted an my car especially for my WW-boats. I also car topped my Pouch E65-folder, a 50 years old German wooden frame folder. Never noticed any damage or bending. On some occasions I builded up the K1 the wrong way means the frame was not really straight in the skin. The boat was going to one side afterwards. > The seat is annoying as the back is much too high. Makes for > a comfortable ride, but lousy for laybacks. I took the plastic back > out but still haven't gotten it to the point where it is as > comfortable as I'd like it to be. The plastic crossrib behind the > seat has a little know on it that drives into my back when sculling > and rolling. You could try to drill a hole horizontal through the top auf the rip and tap a thread in the plastic so that the Knob with the screw is sitting on the side. Another possibility is to use a screw with a smaller knob. And: Have you ever tried to put the screw in the thread from beneath? Just an idea, never tried one of these things myself. I hope nothing is damaged at your Khats Rainer -- Rainer Schroeter, Marburg (Lahn), Germany *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Maun" <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > I did have a very negative experience in the Khats weekend before > last. Maybe some of you here can shed some light on it. I set off > with a group I have never paddled with for a short day paddle on the > North Sea. Everything started out well and the paddling seemed fine. > That is, it seemed fine as we were paddling around a point out onto > the sea following the coast to our left. Once we were out, I noticed > that my boat continued veering to the left I would suspect something with the frame and perhaps cartopping the boat on its side may be the cause. While you later looked at the frame and felt it was straight the culprit need not be the entire length of the boat but may be just something like just the bow piece possibly having twisted and therefore aiming the boat in one direction or another. Rather than go with a full rudder, just add that strap on skeg that Feathercraft sells for peanuts. You may also just ask them about your experience by emailing them at info_at_feathercraft.com. You could also ask about the strap on skeg. ralph-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm a little confused about how the strap on skeg works. I can be dense at times, but I do realize that it straps on the stern of the Khats and makes you go straight, but how does it work when compared to a retractable skeg on a hard shell? I ask b/c I was under the impression that one deployed a retractable skeg just enough to make a kayak track straight under adverse conditions, that is, to prevent the kayak from weather cocking. If the skeg is set too deep, doesn't it, in effect, overcompensate and cause the stern to point into the wind? Would one see a similair problem if using F'craft's strap on skeg since its depth isn't adjustable? Having never used a skeg personally, I would appreciate any thoughts on this one. Lew Crenshaw Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lew Crenshaw" <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Khatsalano/Strap on Skeg Operation > I'm a little confused about how the strap on skeg > works. I can be dense at times, but I do realize that > it straps on the stern of the Khats and makes you go > straight, but how does it work when compared to a > retractable skeg on a hard shell? The strap on skeg (which BTW can be used on any kayak hardshell or folding) is quite shallow in its protrusion below the kayak. You could just leave it on as it helps with any boat that may tend to weathercock. I don't think it can overcompensate. ralph-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Len Wrote: > > I'm a little confused about how the strap on skeg > > works. I can be dense at times, but I do realize that > > it straps on the stern of the Khats and makes you go > > straight, but how does it work when compared to a > > retractable skeg on a hard shell? Ralph wrote: > > The strap on skeg (which BTW can be used on any kayak hardshell or folding) > is quite shallow in its protrusion below the kayak. You could just leave it > on as it helps with any boat that may tend to weathercock. I don't think it > can overcompensate. I have one and use it occasionally on my Khats. In fact, it is large enough to possibly cause lee helm on some yaks in mild beam conditions. I paddle and favor various hardshell yaks with skegs and I only occasionally adjust the skegs down far enough to provide the area of the strap-on. I've heard tell that the First Nations kayakers built their boats to weathercock a fair amount so that they would be easy to control when approaching prey from downwind. They had strap-on skegs like the one available from FC which they would use on long crossings or trips, then have their partners remove them before starting the hunt. The Khats is designed with a fair amount of weather helm (weather "cocking" if you will) for anyone in my weight range. With the skeg on, the boat becomes neutral in fair to calm conditions and manageable in a blow. Instead of using the skeg, I usually favor placing 15 lbs of lead ballast or 2 gallons of water (in a water sack) inside the rear hatch to achieve the same neutral helm. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> wrote: > I did have a very negative experience in the Khats weekend before > last. Maybe some of you here can shed some light on it. I set off > with a group I have never paddled with for a short day paddle on the > North Sea. Everything started out well and the paddling seemed fine. > That is, it seemed fine as we were paddling around a point out onto > the sea following the coast to our left. Once we were out, I noticed > that my boat continued veering to the left - as if she missed land > and wished to return. I thought this might be due to the current and > chop and mentioned it to a companion and asked if he was experiencing > the same problem. He wasn't. > I had a similar experience with my K-1. It puzzled me until I started paying closer attention to how I was sitting in the boat. To my surprise, I'd been paddling with the boat seriously leaned over to one side. Once I took more care to keep the boat level, and focused more on using my knees to control edging and leaning, the boat stopped veering off to the side. -- mike ----------------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org http://www.findascope.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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