I am very impressed with Mr. Kruger's paddling and design skills. He says " Whether paddling the Sea Wind canoe or the Dreamcatcher kayak, the single blade canoe paddle increases your efficiency. A double bladed paddle is necessary for other kayaks because their hull form is unstable and requires bracing on either side in certain conditions. Also, many kayaks don't have a rudder or the rudder is an afterthought. The extra weight of the off-side blade swinging through the air accumulates over several thousand paddle strokes in a day to sap your energy." In a magazine article he talked about a group of canoeist leaving a group of experienced kayakers behind over a several day trip. He also says "Contrary to what some may believe, a larger, longer boat paddles easier, safer, and with better handling characteristics than many smaller less stable craft. For all its size and stability the Dreamcatcher is as fast as some of the marathon racing C-1's." I would be interested in what some of the more knowledgeable members of this group have to say about the relative speed of the Dreamcatcher and about the endurance speed of the canoeist versus the Kayaker. I hope Matt Broze will comment. William Malone [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of wmalone.vcf] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have the chance to meet Verlen Krueger and Valerie Fons while they passed through Argentina during their trip from Alaska to the Fire Land, and while I didn't have the chance to paddle their canoes I had the chance to see them close, talk with them about them, and see them paddling. Even a close friend of mine traveled with them for a few days. Here are my conclusions ... <-----Original Message----- <From: William Malone <Subject: [Paddlewise] Krueger Kayaks < < <I am very impressed with Mr. Kruger's paddling and design skills. <He says <" Whether paddling the Sea Wind canoe or the Dreamcatcher kayak, the <single blade canoe paddle increases your efficiency. A double bladed <paddle is necessary for other kayaks because their hull form is unstable <and requires bracing on either side in certain conditions... I definitely don't agree with this. Kayaks and canoes are completely different boats, where you sit in different positions so you need different paddling techniques. But racing canoes ( C1 ) are as unstable as racing kayaks ( K1 ) and you don't use a double bladed paddle on them. Bracing and balance are related to the stability of the boat and depend on your ability not on your paddle. Whitewater canoes can be rolled with a single paddle and kayaks can be rolled without a paddle. But talking specifically about Krueger canoes, because of their width, flat bottom, size, and paddling position, I agree to use a single bladed paddle. < ... "Also, many kayaks don't have a rudder or the rudder is an afterthought. The extra weight < of the off-side blade swinging through the air accumulates over several < thousand paddle strokes in a day to sap your energy." Krueger kayaks are heavy, strong, but heavy, and the paddles they used were heavy, single bladed but heavy. I don't agree with this comment neither. You may have to make a physical analysis to know how two paddles of the same weight affects the effort of a paddler in a kayak and in a canoe or something like that. If this were true single bladed paddles would also be more efficient in kayaks ... and they are not ... because in a kayak you don't feel comfortable paddling with them and this is because you can't sit properly to use them. The same way in wide boat you won't feel comfortable with a double paddle. <In a magazine article he talked about a group of canoeist leaving a <group of experienced kayakers behind over a several day trip. This can be true ... he is a really strong man. But I don't think his canoes are faster than the average sea kayaks. Actually they were doing pretty slow and my friend paddling with a Nordkapp had to be waiting for them all the time. But they had the chance to attach one canoe to the other forming a catamaran and sail ... and then they did go very fast, faster than my friend can paddle. As they traveled most of they're trip trough rivers they did a lot of sailing. <He also says "Contrary to what some may believe, a larger, longer boat <paddles easier, safer, and with better handling characteristics than <many smaller less stable craft. For all its size and stability the <Dreamcatcher is as fast as some of the marathon racing C-1's." So why millions of whitewater and surf kayakers use the opposite ? The speed of any boat is a related to the length but also to your power. If you are not strong enough a long heavier boat can be slower ... and the longer the less maneuverable. Wider is safe in calm waters, but not in the sea. Actually they were not able to paddle in our seas. We offered them sea kayaks to go on but they didn't accept. And definitely the Dreamcatcher can't be as fast as a racing C1 !!! Verlen Krueger is one of the most important paddlers of the world. He has the guiness record of miles paddled in a canoe. But the boats he manufacture are strong, reliable, high volume canoes. They are not kayaks, even when some of them are close decked. Saying his canoes are better than kayaks is wrong. They are just different. His canoes are not good for open water, but they are so stable you can stand on them and so big you can sleep in them too. Anyway I respect him very much. My 2 cents.- Fernando Lopez Arbarello Kayak Argentina - Sea Kayaking Mailing List kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com <mailto:kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
William Malone <wmalone_at_mediaone.net> wrote >>>>>>>>I am very impressed with Mr. Kruger's paddling and design skills. He says " Whether paddling the Sea Wind canoe or the Dreamcatcher kayak, the single blade canoe paddle increases your efficiency. A double bladed paddle is necessary for other kayaks because their hull form is unstable and requires bracing on either side in certain conditions. Also, many kayaks don't have a rudder or the rudder is an afterthought. The extra weight of the off-side blade swinging through the air accumulates over several thousand paddle strokes in a day to sap your energy."<<<<<<<<<<< Canoe strokes are more efficient for the reason Verlen stated, and the weight of the blade that must be lifted as well. However the higher sitting position in one of Verlens very kayak like "Canoes" is why a wider boat is needed and braces are still necessary as Verlen himself found out off the Oregon Coast in the early eighties. I guess only one capsize in 28,000 miles is not unreasonable, but without his partner Steve Landick, Steve's kayak paddle, an EPIRB, the Coast Guard, and some good luck he wouldn't have survived. his kayak was recovered eight days later well offshore. A reporter who paddled with him about that time later stated that Verlen did not have a brace and would get repeatedly dumped in the surf during a training session he was a part of in preparation for the West Coast leg of the 28,000 mile paddle. >>>>>>>>In a magazine article he talked about a group of canoeist leaving a group of experienced kayakers behind over a several day trip.<<<<<<<<< Individual paddlers vary in strength and skill so this means nothing. Steve Landick was both a canoer and a kayaker and had both paddles with him on the 28,000 mile trip. He said he could make more miles per day using the canoe paddle and I believe him. I paddled his Monarch for a while (with my kayak paddle) and it didn't seem especially efficient to me (as one might expect with a 28" wide hull). He also says "Contrary to what some may believe, a larger, longer boat paddles easier, safer, and with better handling characteristics than many smaller less stable craft. For all its size and stability the Dreamcatcher is as fast as some of the marathon racing C-1's." I doubt this but I have never paddled a Dreamcatcher. Verlen was a top marathon racer himself so I'm sure he could outpace most paddlers in a marathon C-1's. Verlen also had the advantage of using a rudder so he didn't have to switch sides every eight strokes but only when he felt like it (marathon C-1's don't use a rudder). >>>>>>>>I would be interested in what some of the more knowledgeable members of this group have to say about the relative speed of the Dreamcatcher and about the endurance speed of the canoeist versus the Kayaker. I hope Matt Broze will comment.<<<<<<<< Okay, you sucked me in to responding this time. In 1984 at the Maine Symposium my roommate, Verlen Kruger, had the loudest snore I have ever heard before or since. It sounded something like an intermittent chainsaw. it was hard to carry on a conversation with a third party during the wall shaking resonance. Good thing, I was very tired and also a sound sleeper. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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