Re: [Paddlewise] Mariner Kayaks (was: Why does rocker and carving work?)

I think the phenomenon is general and not particular for any specific type 
of hull shape. A specific shape may make it sharper or not.  Talking of 
something many people have seen in order to have common views, if you look 
at the Perfomance Sea Kayaking excellent tape, you´ll see Randy Carlson in 
a plastic almost flat bottom kayak, no chine, no center line, not too big a 
rocker and not to big a stern turning when he leans heavily on one side and 
then on the other. The same is seen with other kayaks.

I think the basic requirements for a boat to turn when leaned is that it is 
wider in the center.

The ACA course teaches to lean to the outer side of the curve at the same 
time as making a sweep stroke in order to get a more effective turn. We 
have proven that if the center is wider and the stern extends farther back 
and goes in deeper, i.e. less rocker, the carving effect when leaning is 
more noticeable.

That is why we have made our boat narrow in the water  level but wide on 
the seam and with well marked bow to stern line, and inclined side 
walls.  We have enhanced the property that we think is basic for the 
carving and the result is great. Most of the time 8 out of 10 it turns when 
one leans, and sometimes you can make it turn in the opposite direction 
when changing the leaning, without touching the water with the paddle.

We can tape it for anybody interested.

Best Regards,

Rafael
www.mayanseas.com

At 03:02 p.m. 04/12/01 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "Shawn Baker" <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com>
>
> > >According to Matt, Mariner kayaks turn by being edged alone.  No
> > >initiation required. Something about the asymmetric shape of the hull.
> >
> > > Tilt right and the hull turns left and visa versa.
> >
> > They do, they really do!  It's the craziest (but one of the neatest)
> > things I've ever felt.
>
>No discredit to the great folks at Mariner, but I'm a tad amazed that this
>seems to be a unique feature.  Many kayaks do this, including my
>Solstice GTH,  the Swift North Sea (JW design),  Pintail and many more.
>In fact, this is one of the factors I consider in evaluating a kayak.  For
>no particularly great reason, I expect a kayak to do this.  (Note that my
>Ellesmere is not particularly great at this.  It will turn with just a 
>lean, but
>weakly and a bit of weather will make it go the other way.  So there are
>other things I value as well.  It's just that I always test this feature when
>trying a kayak.)
>
>The most symmetric hull I tried (that I can think of offhand) is the 
>Caribou S.
>It is neither fish-form nor swede form and it had the least distinct turning
>behavior I've noted (skeg up, of course).  Edge it without a sweep and it
>could go either way.  With a sweep, it was fine.
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
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