Inspired by the recent comments on rolling and the lack of consistency in names etc, I decided to try creating a web page with as many rolls as possible listed. My desire at this point is to document the name, origin, type, source (book, magazine or web site) and brief comments on different rolls. I've assembled a few (approx 28 so far with duplicates) on the following web site: http://members.rogers.com/michaeldaly2/kayakRollingXref.htm Most are from Hutchinson's and Dutky's books. What I'd like is to find info about rolls not on this list. I don't need any references to the rolls in the last five years' worth of Sea Kayaker nor do I need info on the Greenland Rolling Competition as on the Qayaq USA site. In both those cases, I'll be collecting the info myself in the next week or so. I also don't want multiple references to the identical roll. If the regular screw roll is documented (essentially) identically in four books, I only need one. What is important is to find different names for the same roll, different rolls with the same name and sources of rolls I've never heard of. I've left a few ??? in the tables. I need this info. For example, we talked last summer about a roll from someone named Tom (I think) that is in an older edition of SK magazine (1988??). If you remember this and can help, that info is welcome. I think Matt knows the fellow. All help appreciated and TIA. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In the interest of encyclopedic inclusiveness, one might add to Michael Daly's neat compilation <http://members.rogers.com/michaeldaly2/kayakRollingXref.htm> the hand roll I think Nansen described teenage kayakers doing in one of his books about Greenland. Before going over, the roller places a small stone in each palm. After completing the hand roll, he opens his palms to show he has not lost his rocks, thereby demonstrating he did not paddle his way around. It probably has a precise name in Greenlandic or Inuktitut meaning "teen-ager showoff roll." Tom Joyce ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:27 PM 1/29/02 -0600, Joyce, Thomas F. wrote: >In the interest of encyclopedic inclusiveness, one might add to Michael >Daly's neat compilation > ><http://members.rogers.com/michaeldaly2/kayakRollingXref.htm> > >the hand roll I think Nansen described teenage kayakers doing in one of his >books about Greenland. Before going over, the roller places a small stone >in each palm. After completing the hand roll, he opens his palms to show he >has not lost his rocks, thereby demonstrating he did not paddle his way >around. It probably has a precise name in Greenlandic or Inuktitut meaning >"teen-ager showoff roll." At the AKT skill symposium a couple of years ago Doug Van Doren did a rather interesting variation on the hand roll. He capsized holding a bowling ball and then came with it on his spray skirt. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Joyce, Thomas F." <TJoyce_at_bellboyd.com> > Before going over, the roller places a small stone > in each palm. After completing the hand roll, he opens his palms to show he > has not lost his rocks, thereby demonstrating he did not paddle his way > around. It probably has a precise name in Greenlandic or Inuktitut meaning > "teen-ager showoff roll." That one's covered in the "Hand roll with a clenched fist". The description on the Qajaq USA site explains how they use a pingpong ball to guarantee that paddler keeps his hand closed through the whole roll. I guess the folks who decided on that never met an expert at prestidigitation. I've met magicians that could hide almost anything with an open hand! Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"At the AKT skill symposium a couple of years ago Doug Van Doren did a rather interesting variation on the hand roll. He capsized holding a bowling ball and then came with it on his spray skirt." I saw that on film once. I think Mike's got that one covered with the 8 kilogram weight roll. ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>"At the AKT skill symposium a couple of years ago Doug Van Doren did a >rather interesting variation on the hand roll. He capsized holding a >bowling ball and then came with it on his spray skirt." > >I saw that on film once. I think Mike's got that one covered with the 8 >kilogram weight roll. Actually this is not the same roll. Doug holds the bowling ball in his off hand, near his skirt, and sweeps with his outboard hand, to show that, like your head, if the weight is kept low and in the water you can roll up. It's a very effective demonstration as to why keeping your "head down" is so important. In the Greenland championship you have to hold a large brick and sweep with it, using your *outboard hand*. The technique is similar to the Greenland handroll where you sweep from bow to stern with your outboard hand only, palm up, and with the off hand "flung" over the hull as a counterweight to finish. The final recovery is with your torso laying on the aftdeck. In the case of rolling with the brick, while you are sweeping it, the weight doesn't really come into play (as long as you can get the brick and your torso to the surface), but you had better be nearly upright by the end of the sweep or it will quickly pull you back under. I imagine that the harbor in Nuuk, where the 2000 Greenland competition was held, is literally paved with these bricks, from failed rolling attempts. I'm sorry to say that I didn't win any points for this roll, so that should make it all-too-clear where my bricks ended up... Greg Stamer _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Greg Stamer" <gstamer_at_hotmail.com> > >I saw that on film once. I think Mike's got that one covered with the 8 > >kilogram weight roll. > > Actually this is not the same roll. Doug holds the bowling ball in his off > hand, near his skirt, and sweeps with his outboard hand, to show that, like > your head, if the weight is kept low and in the water you can roll up. It's > a very effective demonstration as to why keeping your "head down" is so > important. I think this roll is a kind of trick roll and I've not been putting those in the list. I anyone thinks otherwise, I'll add it. For example, I didn't include the dry hat or lit cigarette rolls, since they are just tricks that are added to existing rolls. I reluctantly added the paddle float and assisted hand rolls, since they are usually just learning tools. But the norsaq (throwing stick) rolls are a form of assisted hand roll and are legit. It's not easy to draw a line, so I'd err on the side of including it. Should I add the bowling ball roll? Mike PS - the list is up to sixty or so rolls, with the Greenland competition rolls and last five years of SK magazine's rolls (only two of the latter) added. I also added one of my own "invention" and some from the back channel. Some rolls I only vaguely understand, so I may have erred in classifying them as brace instead of sweep or vice-versa. The Greenland rolls number the most in this category. I'm running out of rolls to include. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:23 PM 1/29/02 -0500, Michael Daly wrote: >From: "Greg Stamer" <gstamer_at_hotmail.com> > > > > >I saw that on film once. I think Mike's got that one covered with the 8 > > >kilogram weight roll. > > > > Actually this is not the same roll. Doug holds the bowling ball in his off > > hand, near his skirt, and sweeps with his outboard hand, to show that, > like > > your head, if the weight is kept low and in the water you can roll up. > It's > > a very effective demonstration as to why keeping your "head down" is so > > important. > >I think this roll is a kind of trick roll and I've not been putting those >in the list. I anyone thinks otherwise, I'll add it. > >For example, I didn't include the dry hat or lit cigarette rolls, since >they are >just tricks that are added to existing rolls. > >I reluctantly added the paddle float and assisted hand rolls, since they are >usually just learning tools. But the norsaq (throwing stick) rolls are a >form of assisted hand roll and are legit. It's not easy to draw a line, >so I'd err on the side of including it. Should I add the bowling ball roll? I would say "no" as it is a trick roll. When I did some paddling with Ray Killen last summer he did a few other rolls. One of the trick rolls (I call it a flip-flop roll because I don't recall him giving it a name) goes like this: (assuming a roll up on the right) The set up position is kind of weird. Grab the paddle in the middle of the loom with your right hand. Lean forward, push the paddle into the water on right and then slide the paddle under the boat so that you can grab the end of the blade with your left hand. It should be in a extended paddle low brace position, except that the paddle is under the boat. Now capsize to the left. When you do the paddle will flip over to the other side. When you come around the other side, let go with your right hand and pull down with your left (keep a hold of the end of the paddle if you can) and the paddle will flop back over to the other side. Grab the loom with your right hand and do a extended paddle C-to-C. He also does a bunch of other trick rolls that involve using something other than a paddle. He does it with a cross country ski, a rake, and a broom (obviously, a sweep roll). However, it did demonstrate a roll that could be quite useful and likely would be good practice as well. Capsize, remove your PFD, roll up with it. Now for the useful roll *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > > However, it did demonstrate a roll that could be quite useful and likely > would be good practice as well. Capsize, remove your PFD, roll up with it. I've played with it, never actually used it for real. Both of my new PFDs are over-the-head type, and are strenuous to remove standing up, never mind under water. Suggestion, if you miss this roll and decide to drop the PFD and exit, be sure to drop it to the side. If you're holding it in front of you when you let go you'll have to fight your way throuh 1" of foam being held over your grab loop by 15+ lbs of flotation. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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