Re: [Paddlewise] Doug's Ultimate Drysuit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Staehling" <staehpj1_at_yahoo.com>
To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>

> I have been trying to stay out of this since I usually
> start an argument when I say this.  So against my
> better judgement I will put forward this opinion.

Me, too :-)

> For a dry suit, I never found the breathable fabric to
> help much either.  I wind up wet anyway, only I am
> more likely to feel wet and cold with the breathable
> fabric.  With the cheaper non-breathable fabric I
> usually feel wet only when I take it off at the end of
> the day.  So even if I am a little drier (not dry)
> with Goretex, what good is that if I feel wetter and
> colder.

I have never owned a Goretex dry suit but my experience with a coated
drysuit is pretty much as that of Pete.  Air/wind penetration in a closed
coated dry suit is absolutely zero.  In a Goretex suit some wind does
penetrate (Goretex never claims absolute zero wind impermeability) and some
of your warmed up air as well (none leaves a coated suit).

>
> I suspect that one of the problems with Goretex is
> that it can't really work when the outer side of it is
> covered (by a wet PFD and a spray skirt for example).
> I suspect it also does not really breathe when the
> outer layer is soaking wet.  So in those conditions it
> works as well as the cheap stuff at best.  At worst it
> manages to breathe enough to carry some heat away, but
> not enough to keep you dry.

The heat loss is pretty much right from the experience of paddlers who are
using Goretex and those using coated. You are colder in Goretex.

I have a 12 year old coated suit.  If and when I think it has truly given up
the ghost, I probably would splurge on Goretex.  Its advantage is that while
you are moving around on land before and after paddling, moisture buildup is
less and moisture will escape.  Your insulation layers will be drier
underneath and you won't have such a need to completely strip off those
layers as you do at the end of the day with a coated suit.  When paddling
and wearing a sprayskirt and a PFD and having your lower body in the non
breathing area of a cockpit, not much of your moisture will escape.  Some
will through what isn't covered of your upper body and, of course, your
arms.

On the other hand, if one is speaking of plain ole paddling jackets, then I
think breathable is better than fully coated.  I always hated my paddling
jacket.  Moisture built up but unlike a dry suit with latex gaskets
everywhere, neoprene wrist and neck seals and a bungee or neoprene waist let
cold air penetrate the paddling jacket and make that wet insulation feel
cold.  With breatheable waterproof paddling jackets that moisture buildup is
a lot less and even if air penetrates through neoprene seals it won't make
you feel quite as chilled.

I still feel that somewhere in the near future we will see some perfect
blend of a non-confining insulated wet suit made of some material that is
richly warm in 38 degree water, breatheable and waterproof in its structure
and fitted with decent seals at the neck and wrists that will keep 99.9% of
water out but be able to be opened and not be as awfully confining and
uncomfortable as latex gaskets.  Some of the ingredients of this are already
around.  Witness those sealcoated Daarlex gaskets used in some paddling
jackets that fit snugger than neoprene gaskets and don't absorb water that
will then trickle down to your armpits when you raise your arm.  Some of the
watersports Polartec and equivalent are getting close to at least stopping
water penetration directly through the material.  Now all they have to do is
make it thick enough to provide insulation for 38 degree water while being
stretchy and comfortable enough to fit like a kid glove.

ralph diaz


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