I usually don't pay too much attention to boat comparisons mentioned on this list, as they are somewhat irrelevant to me (though I faithfully read all posts). My next boat would likely be a Romany anyway, when someone finally builds a lighter but as strong North American version. Anyway, someone new to Paddlewise backchanneled me asking advice about the CD Andromeda. It is a fairly new boat, with not much of a following yet. The only discussion I remember was a few negative comments by Steve at Adlercreek. While I always give credence to everything that Steve says, I also realize boat comparisons and likes/dislikes are almost wholly subjective. Steve mentioned, from my best recollection (note that statement please) that he felt the Andomeda was released a bit too early by CD, before full refinement (I assume in terms of hull configuration/ characteristics, etc.). The Andromeda has been highlighted in no less that Popular Mechanics, and is receiving a bit of attention from other sources. What interests me in particular, is that the kayak doesn't seem dissimilar to the hull of the Cirrus (Derek's design from P&H). While there were probably some minor refinements, the main improvement would be the vacuum bag manufacturing and the improved North American deck. The boat is certainly stiff enough, and can always be bought with more reinforcing if the customer really needs it. I've heard of folks from Arabia paying three grand to have it shipped ASAP, so someone really likes this boat. I paddled for years with Doug Alderson and a mutual friend called Tom, who owned a Cirrus. We paddled in every imaginable condition on open ocean waters. I know what the Cirrus can and can't do, where its strength and weaknesses lie. Its not a bad boat at all in a blow or rough seas for the paddler that can take care of themselves (as opposed to a kayak that can take care of you) so I'm curious about Steve's remarks, and was wondering if there were other comments about this boat. I do know Tom eventually sold the Cirrus for a Gulfstream 2001. BTW, my ex-GP is moving from his CD Extreme to a CD Gulfstream 2002. (I find the Gulfstream a bit too wide for me, but easier to bring back on course once off-track than the Cirrus -- or Nordkapp). Seems like a lot of folks in Victoria are paddling the Gulfstream. Maybe there will be a club for them one day :-) Help appreciated, Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 06:43 PM 2/6/02 -0800, Doug Lloyd wrote: >The Andromeda has been highlighted in no less that Popular Mechanics, >and is receiving a bit of attention from other sources. What interests >me in particular, is that the kayak doesn't seem dissimilar to the hull >of the Cirrus (Derek's design from P&H). I've never heard of a Cirrus. Are you talking about a P&H Sirius? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug and all, My testing of the Andromeda ranges from a 5-day, 100 mile trip down the Willamette river to a 15NM upriver, downwind trip near Astoria. On the Willy, the boat performed well. Some fast current work and speedy downstream paddling was fun. The boat is speedy, spirited and sporty (salesman talk for tippy, fast and maneuverable) No wind so no skeg trial. It's workmanship is 100%. Deck layout (IMHO) is 80%. (Perimeter decklines that don't do the whole perimeter, deck bungies 4" from the front of the rim, lame spare paddle configuration.) So I ordered two, one to demo and one to sell. I should of tested it in some wind. I got the demo and decided to take her out on a Columbia River EXplorer, our level 4/5 instruction trips. Wind was west _at_ 30 knots, seas were up to 4'. perfect for a Astoria to Knappa landing run. 2 NDK Explorers and a Romany 16 were along for the *ride*. We paddled up to Tongue point and I was having some trouble falling dead downwind with the skeg fully deployed, while the NDK's surfed off into the East. I managed to get to Tongue where we took a much needed break in the lee of the point. I was checking out my chart, no glasses and far sighted, and almost flipped (sporty, eh?). Ok this can happen in any spirited boat, tho I don't have the same problem in my Pintail. Anywho...... back out into the wind and low and behold came to the conclusion that the boat weathercocks to about 20º off the wind with the skeg fully deployed. Rom16 and EX run about 5º. Surfing was fun, fast and furious when I could get her to stick at 0 but was quite frustrating when it would slip off to a WC position. The NDK's thought it was amusing that Ol' Capt. S was having a hissy fit. =:-o) In looking at the set up it seems that the skeg is rather shallow and quite far forward. I would think that Sir Derek or CD would of tested this out before release. Maybe the focused market for this boat won't be paddling in 30 knots but I know this cowboy ain't going to pull the Ando outta the stables for a gnarly ride. rrrrrrrrrrrrrr! steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Scherrer wrote: > Doug and all, > > My testing of the Andromeda ranges from a 5-day, 100 mile trip down the > Willamette river to a 15NM upriver, downwind trip near Astoria. <big snip> Steve, Thank you for the report (snipped). It was much more objective than prior comments, and I really appreciate you taking the time from your busy day to jot down your observations. My backchanneling friend will appreciate the information too, I'm sure. Your observations largely confirm what I know about the P&H version, though I have no intimate knowledge if the Andromeda and the Sirius are related - they just look very similar in terms of hull geometry. One needs to be a narrow kayak enthusiast to apprehend the desirability of a kayak like the Andomeda. There were days in the past when NA kayak shops _wouldn't_ carry such a narrow boat - and now they are being fully marketed. Interesting, eh? I know Tom gave up his Sirius for precisely the same reasons you mention, namely weathercocking. So, you think you got a rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I've heard Tom grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! for 10 days on the west coast (a particularly nasty trip we did in constant gale force winds, and he is a top notch paddler BTW). Anyway, if the Andromeda is a worthy boat, the market place will bear this out in time. As a company, I like Current Designs, but if a spade is a spade, the dust will settle where it may with this boat. I've always preferred a rounder hull myself than the "V" chine like the Andromeda, but do suffer trying to catch smaller wind waves in my Nordkapp. A "V" chine boat also make beach launches a little more difficult as the kayak tends to flop from one side to the other, whereas a flatter bottom hull amidsection does not. In terms of running off course and trying to correct back, a deep draft rudder was my eventual solution with the now dated Nordkapp, though I use it as little as possible. Thanks John for the corrected spelling on "Cirrus" - damn spell check! Doug Lloyd (hoping his friends at CD don't get too upset with me, after all, the truth shall set the paddler free - or something like that). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm hoping my friends at CD don't get too upset, myself. I really like their boats and workmanship, tho I find the truth is the truth. Agreed on the more rounded hull forms. The flop from side to side is a bit weird and IMHO, not necessary. That aspect is what nearly flipped me. I find that I have to roll over till the 2ndary stability catches when at rest and needing to function in an upright position. Many boats are like this and my feeling is the speed one gains for the lack of stability (primary) with a deep, exaggerated *V* is for another paddler, not me. Maybe some other US manufacturer will come up with a new cool design that can actually compete with the Britts! ;-) Grrrrrrr!! steve Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe N 45º 39' 47" 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One thing that perhaps was forgotten was the fact that some of Derek's "expeditionary" designs, as well as others, do tend to behave much better with a full load (or ballast -- of whatever origin). Having said that, I know friends who have had to ballast their NA kayaks as well, such as the CD Extreme. And as fast as the Andomeda/Sirius style boats are, they don't sprint well indefinitely. Tom often lagged behind when we needed to vacate life threatening conditions (like off Brooks Peninsula during a sudden offshore blow, etc.). Yet in Tom's wider Gulfstream, he was simply goooooooone. Makes no sense to me. Doug Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe wrote: > I'm hoping my friends at CD don't get too upset, myself. I really like > their boats and workmanship, tho I find the truth is the truth. > > Agreed on the more rounded hull forms. The flop from side to side is a bit > weird and IMHO, not necessary. That aspect is what nearly flipped me. I > find that I have to roll over till the 2ndary stability catches when at rest > and needing to function in an upright position. Many boats are like this and > my feeling is the speed one gains for the lack of stability (primary) with a > deep, exaggerated *V* is for another paddler, not me. > > Maybe some other US manufacturer will come up with a new cool design that > can actually compete with the Britts! ;-) > > Grrrrrrr!! > > steve > Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe N 45º 39' 47" > 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" > Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com > Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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