Steve wrote: <SNIP>>>>>>The Mariners are OK, tho if you don't get the velcro just right, they leak. The ortlieb is the same but a little easier to get lined up. The new Voyager seems to be the easiest to use, good velcro and heavy duty vinyl too. my 2 centavos worth.<<<<<<<< Steve, the Mariner chart case you are writing about has to be at least three years old. The latest chart cases we made had a heavy duty black urethane zip lock style of closure. Because we can't find any further supply of that heavy duty urethane zip-lock (to bond the to clear urethane fabric we used it has to also be urethane) we haven't sold chart cases at all for well over a year now. I've still got plenty of the clear urethane material so if anybody knows of a source of the heavy duty urethane zip-lock please let me know. The urethane fabric was so much stronger than the vinyl or polyethylene fabrics that it could be much more lightweight and flexible and still not tear. The vinyl (like we first used maybe twelve to fifteen years ago) tore easily at the seams and even though we quickly went to the very husky 20 mil vinyl thickness and reinforced the opening they could still sometimes tear along the seams and got very stiff in cold weather (which aggravated the tearing problem). Also, Xerox copies printed off onto the vinyl but not on the more expensive urethane fabric. Vinyl seams were especially vulnerable at the opening so we had to go to great lengths to reinforce the early vinyl chart cases at the open edges or it could tear easily at the seams there (a fact that the vinyl radio/cellphone/GPS case makers I've seen have just seemed to ignore). The seem tearing problem went completely away when we switched to the much tougher urethane fabric. Perhaps Steve is still using an older urethane mariner chart case with one of the several generations of Velcro fastened (roll down) seals. The urethane cases did last a long time. The earliest urethane ones (with Velcro glued on) ones would yellow some with age and exposure to lots of sunlight but they remained clear and still easy to read a chart through. At least we could glue the Velcro to that urethane material. The later more flexible non-yellowing urethane we were able to find could not glued well to the Velcro so we had to sew the Velcro to some more urethane and then heat bond that urethane to the main body of urethane chart case (so they became more expensive). The black urethane zip-lock in the last generation could be a chore to close but sand and grit wouldn't make it fail like it does to most zip-locks (nor did it break at the ends of the zip-lock like most zip in chart cases eventually tend to do). Chart cases have been by far the biggest "problem product" of any product we have ever made. I still haven't seen any others being made that I'm willing to recommend and sell in our store (and with the nightmares involved with making our own I can assure you I'd rather sell ones that somebody else took care of the production headaches on). Again, if anyone happens to know of a source of heavy duty urethane zip-lock let me know--I think the urethane zip-lock we had found a limited supply of was made in Germany). It is frustrating when you know that something exists but even with hour and hours on the internet looking you can't find the source. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt, About the chart case. Could you eliminate the seal altogether by designing the chart case like a good dry bag and simply repeat fold the open edge over and then snap close it with a fitting like on a dry bag? Could it be designed/tailored/cut so the folded seal would then lie flat so the chart could be easily used and stored? Jim et al ----- Original Message ----- Because we can't find any further supply of that > heavy duty urethane zip-lock (to bond the to clear urethane fabric we used > it has to also be urethane) we haven't sold chart cases at all for well over > a year now. > Matt Broze > http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt writes: > Perhaps Steve is still using an older urethane mariner chart case with one > of the several generations of Velcro fastened (roll down) seals. The > urethane cases did last a long time. The earliest urethane ones (with Velcro > glued on) ones would yellow some with age and exposure to lots of sunlight > but they remained clear and still easy to read a chart through. Yes, the chart cases I have (4) from Mariner are old. Sturdy, dry and yellow. Been in service for 3/4 years in a commercial setting! cool stuff. Hope you can find some velcro and make use of that vinyl, it's bomber! steve aldercreek.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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