Re: [Paddlewise] Face Up Paddlefloat Rescue and more

Matt said:

I don't remember ever experiencing the "yellow rainbow" so it is hard
for me to conceive of anyone but a novice experiencing this either more
than a few times. Doug, do you often experience this?

NOTE: REPLY IN CAPS TO DIFFERENTIATE FROM SENDER (NOT MEANT TO IMPLY
VERBAL VOLUME)

NO. MAYBE THE FIRST TIME I TRIED IT YEARS AGO, BUT THEN THE REAL FIRST
TIME I TRIED AN OUTRIGGER PADDLEFLOAT RESCUE WAS THE EARLY 80's, AND I
WAS USING THE MARINER SELF-RESCUE METHOD WHICH USES A WATER JUG (CARRIED
IT FAITHFULLY ON MY NARROW NORDCAPP FOR YEARS, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE MATT
SAID SO). THE WEIGHT OF THE WATER PREVENTED NOVICE TYPE ERRORS.

After one or two times I always figured the novice would have learned
the lesson to keep their weight to the paddlefloat side. do others often
experience tipping to the non paddlefloat side.

I'VE SEEN NOVICES IN MY CLASS DO THIS. GUESS I'M A POOR TEACHER

If so please let us know if there is a serious problem here I have been
overlooking based on my own experience. Originally, I advocated using a
paddlefloat (a water jug) that could be partially filled with water to
prevent this possibility (and the first envelope style float that we
made had a big dump valve on one of the chambers so it could also be
partially filled with water). I soon realized that it was easy to shift
ones weight to the paddlefloat side (at least with a fixed outrigger--as
we recommend doing this rescue) and the risk of the "yellow rainbow"
seemed pretty small then.

(COVERED ABOVE - SHOULD HAVE READ FORWARD IN YOUR POST)

I have never tried the face up rescue you are advocating with just a
paddlefloat. I have used that method to get in between mine and a
rescuers kayak I'll give it a try with a paddlefloat the next time I
practice rescues.

THE NEXT TIME YOU PRACTICE?    COME ON MATT, YOU MEAN "_WHEN_ I PRACTICE
NEXT TIME." (AS IN ONE SHOULD BE PRACTICING ALL THE TIME   :-)

rescue puts a lot more weight on the paddle shaft than the face-down
method we describe on our website and literature.

YES AND NO. YOU NEED TO GET A REALLY GOOD ARM STRETCH OVER TO THE OTHER
SIDE OF YOUR COCKPIT COMING. IN A SENSE, THERE IS A FAIR BIT OF WEIGHT
ON YOUR PADDLE, BUT THE POINT WAS THAT YOU AVOID THE "SUDDEN" WEIGHT OF
THE INEVITABLE MOMENT WHEN YOU HAVE TO TURN AROUND DOING IT
CONVENTIONALLY. YMMV, AS PER.

Having never broken a paddle doing a paddlefloat rescue even with a 20
oz. paddle I can only conclude that some other methods of using the
paddlefloat may result in broken paddles from what some are saying here.
Would anyone who has broken a paddle doing a paddlefloat rescue please
let us know just what you were doing at the point the paddle broke and
where the paddle broke.

THE MORE FLOTATION IN YOUR PADDLEFLOAT, THE MORE CHANCE OF BREAKING IT,
AS THERE IS LESS CHANCE OF IT SUBMERGING (DURING POOR TECHNIQUE). THEN
AGAIN, I'VE SUBMERGED SMALL FLOATS, UNTIL THERE IS SO MUCH LEVERAGE DUE
TO BOUYANCY ON THE PADDLE ONCE DOWN AT DEPTH, THAT THE SHAFT JUST SNAPS.
IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT PADDLES BREAK DURING PADDLEFLOAT RESCUE
PRACTICE AND DURING THE REAL THING. I AM VERY SURPRISED YOU TAKE
EXCEPTION WITH THIS. NO NEGATIVITY TO YOU INTENDED; ITS JUST THAT
'EVERYONE KNOWS' THIS IS A DISTINCT POSSIBILITY AND REALITY.

I am concerned that some techniques have the paddler putting a lot of
weight on the paddle shaft as they walk over it coming around from
behind or throw a knee up on the middle of the shaft trying to climb up
on the deck.

WHATEVER THE REASON, POOR TECHNIQUE IS WHAT ULTIMATELY IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR PADDLE BREAKAGE.

I think everyone should learn to re-enter and roll but there are some
downsides to it especially for new paddlers. Even with a paddlefloat it
is not likely to be successful for a non roller. The paddlers head will
most likely have to be immersed in cold water to perform the reentry
before rolling.

NOT NECESSARILY. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PADDLEFLOAT AND NON-PADDLEFLOAT
R&R TECHNIQUES. SOME KEEP THE HEAD  UP BUT FLOOD THE COCKPIT MORE, AND
VISA VERSA. I TEACH THREE R&R METHODS, AND MY FRIEND DOUG ALDERSON, A
NUMBER MORE. I'D LIKE TO DO AN ARTICLE FOR SK MAGAZINE SOMETIME ON
THESE, WITH SOME THOUGHTS ON STABILIZATION.

Novices are very reticent to put their head back under water even when
directed to do so by a rescuer like during a reenter and Eskimo bow or
side rescue. Also, the rescue isn't over until you have pumped the kayak
out. The reenter and roll scoops up extra water during the roll and
without the paddle fixed to the deck the pumping process (unless you
have an electric pump) is much more difficult due to the need to balance
or brace the tippy kayak (full of free water which destroys a hulls
stability) while also trying to pump out the kayak. Too many things to
do at once. I think its best to just shift your weight to the fixed
paddlefloat side of the kayak and concentrate on pumping rather than
bracing or holding your paddle in a stabilizing position while you pump.

WELL YES, THERE ARE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES TO EVERYTHING. WEARING
CORRECT GEAR, COLD WATER WITH WARM AIR VS COLD WATER WITH COLD AIR --
ALL THESE THINGS DETERMINE WHAT IS GOING TO WORK BEST FOR A PARTICULAR
PERSON AND EXPERIENCE LEVEL, ETC.

In most kayaks it is a lot easier to fasten the paddle to the deck from
the water than later after you have rolled up. I think the extra few
seconds it takes to fasten the paddle to the kayak are well worth it
later on during the pumping out process. So if you don't have a way to
fasten the paddle to the deck of the kayak that you happened to capsize
(and you know how to Eskimo roll) by all means use the reenter and roll
(that you hopefully have practiced). I  suggest one learn all the
rescues you can and then think about the vulnerabilities of each.

MOST DEFINITELY. MATT, I AGREE WITH YOU 100% ON THE FIXED OUTRIGGER, BUT
JUST REMEMBER, THERE ARE SOME VERY WELL RESPECTED NAMES IN THE KAYAKING
SAFETY FIELD THAT ADVOCATE A NON-FIXED PADDLEFLOAT RESCUE. AND I TOO
WONDER HOW THEY GET THEIR SKIRTS BACK ON THE COAMING, BUT HEY, ITS A
CHANGING WORLD OUT THERE AND US OLD FOGIES AREN'T THE ONLY ONES WITH ALL
THE ANSWERS ANYMORE (NEVER WERE)..

Then pick the one from your quiver that is most appropriate for the
situation you happen to find yourself in. I'd also be interested in
hearing any stories of breaking a paddle in any way. Please tell us the
brand, model, materials, and feather of any paddle you've broken, and
just what you were doing when it broke.

DOES DRIVING OVER THEM WITH A  CAR COUNT?  IF I SAY IT PUBLICLY HERE,
THE DEALER MIGHT READ THIS AND CALL ME ON MY LAST WARRANTY CLAIM  :-)

For instance: I broke a Lightning Ultralight 2 piece paddle (with the
old smooth "Skypole" ultralight shaft) when trying to catch a large
whitecapping wave in Baja in a Khatsalano that had 10 gallons of water
and 2 weeks of gear aboard (and about 2" of freeboard on the back deck).
I dug in hard to accelerate as quickly as possible just as the next wave
crest came by and hit the paddle blade from behind. The shaft literally
exploded between my hand and the blade with a loud bang and a puff of
black "smoke" (just where the oval turns into a round shaft again--and
probably creates a stress riser). With two weeks to go on the trip I was
glad I had a good quality spare (which I was very careful not to
overstress--while thinking about how I was going to connect the
incompatible good halves of both paddles if I broke the 4 piece spare
paddle too).

I THINK DAN HARRISON CAN WORK WITH THIS ONE FOR A HOMER STYLE EPIC. JUST
KIDDING MATT. DON'T LET MY FRIVOLITY DETRACT FROM GETTING SOME GOOD
RESPONSES TO YOUR QUESTIONS.

WELL, I HAVE BROKEN A FEW PADDLES BEFORE MATT, USUALLY IN SURF OR ROUGH
WATER PADDLEFLOAT PRACTICE - AND AT THE POOL AND LAKE. ONE DAY, I'LL
HAVE TO GET A STAINLESS STEEL PADDLE AND KAYAK; UNTIL THEN,
FIBERGLASSDESTRUCTUSS.

DOUG  (WHO JUST SPENT $500.00 ON MORE GYM EQUIPMENT -- GUESS I COULD
HAVE AFFORDED THAT GORETEX SUIT IF I REALLY WANTED TO)

Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com

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