Ralph Diaz wrote: > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Lloyd" <dougl_at_islandnet.com> > > > This was part of the reason I went with non-Goretex in the end. I also > > phoned a friend who paddles every week, 12 months a year. He has both a > > Goretex and a non- breathable drysuit. In winter, he doesn't use the > > Gortex Kokatat Meridian. For warmer spring paddles he does. Best of > > both worlds. My eventual aim would be to have both too. However, I don't > > want to get divorced right now. Also, I do remember my Storm Island > > trip. The breathable Sympatex was terrible -- like wet matte coldly > > clinging to your skin. I had to wear my old nylon Wildwasser paddling > > jacket over top just to survive. > > My experience in paddling in a coated non-breathing dry suit along with > people in Goretex ones was that at lunch or other breaks they had to put > something on over their Goretex suits where I did not. But that was in > exceedingly cold air conditions in the high teens with wind blowing. > Obviously above the high 40 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature and higher, > I would be less comfortable than they would be during breaks. I'm having trouble with the problem as it is being described: that Goretex allows more evaporative cooling than nonbreathables ... and that is a "cause" of insufficient insulation, prompting Ralph's buddies to don another layer when on a lunch break, and Doug to layer on a nonbreathable. Wouldn't Ralph's buddies be pretty durn cold if they went into the water under those conditions (air temp in the teens; water temp must be in the 30's or 40's MAX). Shouldn't they have on some more fleece while in their boats, so if they do go in, their survival time will be acceptable? Or, is the claim being made that immersion in 30-40 F water would cause less heat loss than standing around in air in the teens (albeit windy)? I think if I were cold while paddling in my Goretex drysuit, I'd put on some more fleece ... and when the day was over, the fleece would be relatively dry so I could wear it around camp. Don't most folks who do extended trips using fully coated suits have to use two sets of insulation: a "wet" set for on the water and a "dry" set for camp? Seems like the Goretex makes that unnecessary, though I do concede that there is more evaporative heat loss. I just keep moving, and my internal furnace takes care of that ... or, I put on another layer. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Doug's Ultimate Drysuit > > Seems like the Goretex makes that unnecessary, though I do concede that there > is more evaporative heat loss. I just keep moving, and my internal furnace > takes care of that ... or, I put on another layer. Most reports of being cold in a breathable dry-suit refer to standing on shore; this parallels my experience. The cooling effect while standing on shore in a burped breathable dry-suit can be significant; I've eliminated the teeth chattering cold chill by simply breaking the neck seal, allowing the suit to fill with air and then replacing the neck seal to trap air inside the suit; body heat warms the trapped air, the suit expands and the cold chill is gone; this technique is simple, effective and does not involve any additional non-breathable layers. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > > I think if I were cold while paddling in my Goretex drysuit, I'd put on some > more fleece ... and when the day was over, the fleece would be relatively dry > so I could wear it around camp. That's something I like about my G-T suit. At the end of the day, instead of standing on the shore in the cold stripping off wet fleece and struggling into dry, while trying not to offend the waterside residents, I just take off the drysuit, put on my shoes, and go on with life. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > > - ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Lloyd" <dougl_at_islandnet.com> > > > Also, I do remember my Storm Island > > > trip. The breathable Sympatex was terrible -- like wet matte coldly > > > clinging to your skin. I had to wear my old nylon Wildwasser paddling > > > jacket over top just to survive. > > Ralph wrote: > > My experience in paddling in a coated non-breathing dry suit along with > > people in Goretex ones was that at lunch or other breaks they had to put > > something on over their Goretex suits where I did not. But that was in > > exceedingly cold air conditions in the high teens with wind blowing. > > Obviously above the high 40 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature and higher, > > I would be less comfortable than they would be during breaks. > > I'm having trouble with the problem as it is being described: that Goretex > allows more evaporative cooling than nonbreathables ... and that is a "cause" > of insufficient insulation, prompting Ralph's buddies to don another layer when > on a lunch break, and Doug to layer on a nonbreathable. Dave, Doug was talking about a Sympathex BREATHABLE garment. So, there is no contradiction between his experience and the one I relate. ralph *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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