P'Wisers, the following is intended to be constructive and helpful..... hope it reads that way. If not, tell me to go back to sleep :-) Bottom Line: Are we really having a problem getting paddlers together -- if so, are we over-engineering a solution -- what's the "real" need and value of the proposed database -- are we talking about building this thing because it's fun or because it's needed -- and will data rather than discussion have an adverse affect on the group? Here's my buck-fifty (I couldn't stop myself at just 2 cents)... Conceptually, I think the objective of making it easier for P'Wisers to get together is admirable and I intend to support it, whether it's the tier method or something else. But, I have concerns about the "need" for it and how the methods might change the personality of P'Wise. So, I'm compelled to play devils advocate for a moment, and ask you to think about a few things. We're talking about a resource to put a travelling paddler in touch with a local paddler, or at least his knowledge of the area. We're already able to do that today, through posts - are those posts broken or ineffective? If not, what are we hoping to accomplish? If posts are "broken" and not serving the need, is a databse the best way to fix it, or are there deeper issues with the nature of the community that we should be addressing in stead? We've all seen posts that start with something like "I'll be travelling to .......". But now, we're talking about replacing those posts with data in the form of some sort of spreadsheet, right? Is the data thought to be better, faster, or more reliable than the human interaction of the posts? I'd say no. It's potentially out-of-date the minute you publish it, and many folks won't even bother to fill it out. The only reason I can think of for using the data over posts is to avoid submitting a post. It would allow me to view the data then contact an individual back-channel rather then the whole community. That implies that we see more value in a database and priviate discussions than we do in "community" interaction. Is that what we want? This low value placed on front-channel posts could be a result of an attitude typified by "it doesn't involve me - I can't contribute to that thread". For example, what could I (from Virginia) contribute to a post about a P'Wiser from New Hampshire taking a business trip to Oregon and having a spare day to paddle? Answer: three things.... 1. Even when the post doesn't involve me I see value in it and therefore benefit from it. Reading those posts helps me create a sense of personality for those involved, which helps me get to know them a bit better and fosters a "community" spirit rather than just a discussion board. 2. I may not live in Oregon, but perhaps I did a few years ago, or still have family there. Maybe I have a high level of local knowledge - I'm just not "there" at the moment. Maybe I can help by offering my siblings boat, my parents lawn for tenting, my cousin as a shuttle, a vacation cottage or a parcel of land with water access. Maybe a second P'Wiser will also be travelling to the same city and the two could "hook-up". Those opportunities may be missed with data and back-channel discussions. Posts provide opportunities that raw data does not. 3. The thread may spark an idea or interest in a future trip for anybody on P'Wise. I, for one, have done internet searches on places that I've heard mentioned on P'Wise posts. Haven't you? I also fear for the newbies who join the board. If they see the posts, they'll understand that it's not only accepted, but encouraged and frequent, to "hook up" with other P'Wisers. But, if it's never visible because everyone is using the database and having their "travel" discussions back-channel, the newbies may get the sense that this board is "on line" relationships only, which certainly isn't the case. That takes some of the human element out of the community. You may be thinking to yourself "I'm still going to make the post, I just want the database as well". If that's the case, is the work involved in building it, maintaining it, and getting people to use it, worth the effort of having it, when it's not "needed"? Quick comment on lurkers (I wish that didn't sound as negative as it sometimes does). If a lurker doesn't want to actively participate in discussions, what are the odds that they want to hook-up with another P'Wiser? I don't know, but I can say that I've hooked-up with a lurker who responded to a post back-channel. But, if they are lurking, do you think they'll stick their info on the database? Without the human interaction, I would have missed that opportunity. How about a few lurkers commenting on that opinion? Once more, I'm not opposing the idea. I'll support the outcome, but I'm a little fearful of replacing part of the human interaction of the "community" with data. But, I may be missing the point, and thus my question... what am I missing here? How is a spreadsheet better than human interaction? How will you "really" use it and how will it change your habits and the pseronality of Paddlewise? If it's a neat way to find out who lives in a particular location, why not post the question "anybody live in or near 'xxxxxxx'?" I'm probably just a little confused and a little concerned about any unexpected and unintended impacts on this community. I've completely forgotten who made the original post and what the request was actually for. Perhaps someone who still has it could restate what started the discussion, and let us evaluate whether or not we've got the right solution, or if we've suffered from a case of "scope creep". And as always, if anybody finds themselves coming to southeastern Virginia, contact me. I hope to have a second boat by the end of summer. Rick "resident party poop" Sylvia - Poquoson, VA PS - Too bad I'm not paid by the word! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************Received on Fri Apr 12 2002 - 12:32:25 PDT
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