Shawn wrote: >Unlike GREEN circle people who _know_ our craft will sometimes tip over, and we learn to roll or rescue ourselves. It's an interesting paradigm. Even the USCG literature is predicated upon help magically appearing for those people. We're plying the same waters, but first, we have the realization that help might not appear, so we dress for immersion and train ourselves in rescue procedures. < The CG types predicate help magically appearing because the boaters they are aiming this informaton at have NO OTHER HOPE OF BEING RESCUED! The design rules required for these boats make a capsize a very unlikely event, so the CG recommendations make sense for them, especially since these same rules make it impossible to self rescue. The standard "tin skiff", built to the latest coast guard regulations regarding beam, floatation, etc., and equipped and loaded as per the regulations and the capacity plate won't sink, and would float level with everyone aboard if upright, or with everyone on top if upside down, but would be exceedingly difficult to right, and almost impossible to bale dry. I don''t know how deep they float, i.e., freeboard when swamped, because I have never tried to capsize one, but I bet it wouldn't be much better than a canoe in those circumstances - and most canoes can't be baled dry in real life situations. Kayakers are so lucky, we don't have to wait for the coast guard - if we know what we are doing. Capsize isn't a disaster, it is part of the fun. Regardiing rec boats and floatation: Most "proper" sea kayaks, with hatches and bulkheads, have way more floatation than the usual fiberglass canoe, with just a little bit of an air tank in the bow and stern. These air tanks usually have vents in them, which often leak, so it is not a good idea to spend a lot of time practicing capsizes in these boats, just as the hatches in a kayak often seep a bit under the same circumstances. They can turn into submarines, but for a few minutes, the amount of water taken in is minimal. As this amount of floatation seems to be regarded as "adequate" by the authorities, bulkheaded boats generally don't need anything else, for ordinary use. "Proper" sea kayaks without bulkheads need a knowledgable operator, who understands the necessity for floatation (air bags, foam blocks, dry bags, soccer balls, whatever), skirts, sea socks etc. Almost by definition, the rec boats will not be used by "knowledgable" operators. They need floatation. They tend to be pretty beamy, leaving lots of room at the sides for foam, and are rarely taken out for much more than a day paddle (and are not intended for more) so the reduction of internal volume by floatation is not an issue. There is need, there is room, they should be provided with floatation. Legislating this is tough, though, because the law is blind - all kayaks look the same to a piece of legislation. Let's not go there. That leaves it up to the manufacturer. If the price competition is so tough that manufacturers can't afford to put it in the boat, at the very least, they should provide floatation as an option. I bet they would sell it easily, if they did so - and properly informed their retailers. These boats are built to have fun with. They should be made so a capsize is just as much part of the fun as they are for a sea kayaker. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net" <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> wrote: >This isn't promoting regulations; it's getting everyone to speak the >same language relative to open water boating. NONE of the RED circle >people have ever heard of fuzzy rubber. Most victims with such gear >and a PFD would end up listed as survivors. It would be a vast new >income stream for folks that manufacture that stuff. WHY AREN'T THEY >INTERESTED? I just don't understand. Why? Because like rec boaters, probably even more so, these people do not wish to believe that their boat could EVER tip or capsize or put them in the cold water. Unlike GREEN circle people who _know_ our craft will sometimes tip over, and we learn to roll or rescue ourselves. It's an interesting paradigm. Even the USCG literature is predicated upon help magically appearing for those people. We're plying the same waters, but first, we have the realization that help might not appear, so we dress for immersion and train ourselves in rescue procedures. Second, if we do need to summon outside assistance, many kayakers are better-prepared than red circle tin boaters who don't take a VHF, or flares, or _always_ wear a PFD, or wear immersion protection for the potentially long wait. After watching 'Titanic', I told my wife I would never go on a cruise without packing my drysuit. Shawn Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:29 PDT