OK, I've got to be up front. I'm a proud owner of my very first fiberglass kayak... a CD Gulfstream, with which I have sincerely fallen in love. After several years of owning plastic kayaks, I made the leap. She's a beauty: mango deck, glossy and nearly scratchless after a month of paddling every other day. Like a new car owner, I haven't gotten over the jitters of watching every little ding and scratch appear, especially on the hull during rescue and rolling practice. Yes, lots of you will tell me to "get a life," don't get apoplexy over the inevitable. But I'm sure you can empathize. Everybody (I'd guess) has had a $$$ boat and wanted to keep her looking spiffy. I know several of you folks do extensive work on composite boats, reinforcing, installing new bulkheads, etc. But for the moment, I'd just like to learn how to touch up the little dings in the deck, maybe prevent a future crack from spreading, fix a possible future, larger hull scratch. Is there a good repair book for composite boats that's current (I've found two 20 year old books listed online)? Can a good grade wax keep the deck somewhat protected? Should it be used on the hull? (I know someone's laughing out loud now :) I'm careful, really. I don't drop her, don't run up on rocky beaches, "parallel park and exit," don't surf with her, wash her after she's been in the salt, etc. Still, I have nightmares of the little ding that overnight grew into the Grand Canyon. Tom LeTourneau Wells, Maine *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tom, >From one GS owner to another CONGRATULATIONS!! My boat is three years old and has picked up a few scratches and dings over time. The previous owner of my boat (he had it for 2 years) is a retired fire captain and is absolutely anal about the way he cares for his equipment--plus he paddles with me every week and inspects the boat for any new marks. ;-) One trick I learned from him is to buy two cheap camp stools to put the boat on when you get off of the water and carry fresh water to wash it down with. Then use some 303, Armour All, or equivalent UV protectorant over the entire boat. It works better than wax on making the scratches disappear. The 303 will wash off as easily as any good FG wax, but it really makes the boat look good. My boat gets used, does surf launches and landings, etc and has picked up some scratches along the way, I still get complements almost every time I go out, while some of my friends with newer boats don't get any. Another tip that I learned (from Derek H) was to take some Marine Tex epoxy and use it to build up the keel right behind the skeg box. That area gets rubbed a lot when launching from a beach with surf and was starting to wear down to the fiberglass. Derek said the epoxy was easier to work with and was more abrasion resistant than gel coat. Hope this helps and enjoy your new boat--I sure love mine. Steve Holtzman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom LeTourneau" <tletourn_at_maine.rr.com> > OK, I've got to be up front. I'm a proud owner of my very first fiberglass > kayak... a CD Gulfstream, with which I have sincerely fallen in love. Snip............ ............ Like a new car owner, I haven't gotten over the jitters of > watching every little ding and scratch appear, especially on the hull > during rescue and rolling practice. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 07:40:40PM -0700, Steve Holtzman wrote: > One trick I learned from him is to buy two cheap camp stools to put > the boat on when you get off of the water and carry fresh water to > wash it down with. Another trick along these lines that I've found to work well if you're on relatively flat, although not necessarily level, ground is to set the bow and stern each on a piece of foam. What works really well is the long, rectangular foam blocks with a shallow vee cut on the top that are sold as cheap car topping devices for kayaks and canoes. You can get them in a variety of lengths, and every length I've seen fits trivially through a kayak hatch for "take it with you" convenience. I occasionally launch from one of the docks used by the local colleges for varsity crew. While convenient, they're loaded with nails that sit just high enough above the surface to take a good hunk out of your hull if whacked hard enough. And, believe it or not, just leaving the kayak on the dock when there is a good wind while one heads back to the car to grab more gear, is enough to send the boat (at least mine) spinning like a beenie propeller. Foam == no more spinning boat. -.- jwd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 10:06:51PM -0400, Tom LeTourneau wrote: > Is there a good repair book for composite boats that's current (I've found > two 20 year old books listed online)? It's 12:30 in the morning and I ought to be in bed, but digging through my files for fiberglass kayak repair stuff seems a better use of my time. I hope something below helps you or someone else. The bible on the subject seems to be "The Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual" by Allan H. Vaitses. Note that it focuses on big boat, not wee lil' craft like kayaks. But much of the material is, for all intents and purposes, the same. You can just ignore the parts on rapairing your 30 foot ocean going fishing boat after it plowed into a left over WWII era floating mine. When I got my copy, I had never seen one in any of the major bookstore chains (so I think I went the Amazon or B&N on-line route). This summer, I've seen at least one copy in a Borders store and another in a Barnes & Noble. Another good book is "The Essential Outdoor Gear Manual" by Annie and David Getchell. It covers care and repair for lots of different types of outdoor recreation gear. Given that, you might not want to pop for a copy. If so, try to scare one up from your local library (even if through a libary loan). This is what I wound up doing. You would want to copy chapters 15, 16, 17, 19 along with appendix G. Bennett Marine Video has a very nice 3-volume videotape set called "Cosmetic Gelcoat & Fiberglass Repair". Nice hands-on, low intidimidation factor style to it. For the type of maintenance you're talking about (i.e., no fist-sized holes punched in the hull), you can probably get away with just Vol. 1 (Basic Gelcoat Repair & Finishing). Vol 2. (Stress Cracks, Air Voids & Fractures) gets into the more structural stuff. Vol. 3 is a shorter tape that repeats info contained in Vol 1. (on color matching and finishing). Bennett Marine is either on-line or has and easy access 800 number. You can also find the tapes at various other marine supply companies with a web presence, although determining that the item listed is, in fact, the tape you want proved diffifult when I was tracking down copies. I believe I purchased from Bennett directly. And finally, here are some entries from my browser's bookmark file: - 3M Marine Refinish, Repair, and Maintenance Systems http://www.3m.com/US/auto_marine_aero/marine/ - Fiberglass Repair -- Gelcoat tips http://www.fiberglass-repair.com/rshop3.html - Gelcoat Repair [McLaughlin Boat Works] http://www.iod95.com/gelcoat_repair.htm - Gel Coat Repairs [Aquaskier] http://aquaskier.com/articles/gel_coat_repair.htm - Maintenance and Repair of Fiberglass Kayaks [Wes Boyd's Kayak Place] http://my.dmci.net/~wesboyd/fixglass.htm Happy maintenance :-) -.- jwd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 12:04:59AM -0500, James W. Durkin wrote: > On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 10:06:51PM -0400, Tom LeTourneau wrote: >> Is there a good repair book for composite boats that's current >> (I've found two 20 year old books listed online)? > It's 12:30 in the morning and I ought to be in bed, but digging > through my files for fiberglass kayak repair stuff seems a better > use of my time. I hope something below helps you or someone else. ... snip ... > And finally, here are some entries from my browser's bookmark file: Missed this one somehow. Nice lil' four-page PDF file on various aspects of kayak repair and maintenance. At least it'll print out better than the average web page :-) http://www.kayaknevada.org/maint.pdf -.- jwd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
writes: " Like a new car owner, I haven't gotten over the jitters of watching every little ding and scratch appear, especially on the hull during rescue and rolling practice. Is there a good repair book for composite boats that's current (I've found two 20 year old books listed online)? Can a good grade wax keep the deck somewhat protected? Should it be used on the hull? (I know someone's laughing out loud now :)Tom LeTourneau" Learn to do a sculling entry and exit. It really does eliminate a lot of cosmetic damage. After grinding a 6 inch scratch in my brand new kevlar hull, I was very motivated. 303 works great for UV protection and is easy to apply. As far as books go; try a fiberglass store like TAP Plastics. They have up to date information on the subject and a lot of free handouts. Or you can swear softly and smear on the epoxy like I do. TAP markets a great marine glue that can be used as a paste, dries in 5 minutes (sure it does) and works under water (yes it does, I've tried it) and sands like wood. It should be painted as it's UV sensitive but frankly I think the boat will fall apart first. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:39 AM 8/1/02 -0700, knelson_at_actionpoint.com wrote: >writes: > > " Like a new car owner, I haven't gotten over the jitters of watching >every little ding and scratch appear, especially on the hull during rescue >and rolling practice. Is there a good repair book for composite boats >that's current (I've found two 20 year old books listed online)? Can a >good grade wax keep the deck somewhat protected? Should it be used on the >hull? (I know someone's laughing out loud now :)Tom LeTourneau" > >Learn to do a sculling entry and exit. A sculling entry and exit? What's that? >It really does eliminate a lot of >cosmetic damage. After grinding a 6 inch scratch in my brand new kevlar >hull, I was very motivated. I put a 6 inch scratch on the stern deck within 15 minutes of first launch of the mahogany S&G boat I built. Not intentionally, of course, but it served as a reminder that I had just spent the last 3 months building a boat, not a piece of furniture. I've had my new cedar strip boat in the water for a little over a month and it's quite a few "defects" already, mostly paddle scrape marks from rolling it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have just completed a tour from Punta Baja to Santa Rosalillita on the Pacific coast of Baja California, Mexico. A Float Plan and Float Log is available. Let me know if you're interested and I will send you a copy. It ain't literature but there may be some information useful to anyone contemplating a similar tour. Sid Taylor *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My damage came from a rock I failed to see. Sure heard it though! That's why I will never build a stripper. It would break my heart to have that happen and it would of course. Sculling entry.... the way it was taught to me is simply to use your paddle as an outrigger in deeper water ( enough to clear rocks etc.) Your paddle will not touch bottom. It provides enough stability if you're quick, have a good sense of balance, and can minimally scull in this circumstance. Frankly since I did some additional cockpit work I find it difficult to place my legs on either side of a foam deck reinforcement quickly and I'm sure I look like a seriously demented spider; but in a standard keyhole cockpit it's not bad. Now the exit is just a wee bit harder and I still get wetter than I'd like. Just reverse the previous entry moves and your set. My problem is that I'm usually too tired to do it well and I tend to misjudge the depth. I get my butt out OK, but when I throw a leg down it always tends to be deeper than I thought and sometimes seriously slippery. I sometimes think about doing this in a Klepper. Jump in, jump out. I wanted a cool looking Greenland style boat and that what I got. Kevin At 10:39 AM 8/1/02 -0700, knelson_at_actionpoint.com wrote: >writes: A sculling entry and exit? What's that? >It really does eliminate a lot of >cosmetic damage. After grinding a 6 inch scratch in my brand new kevlar >hull, I was very motivated. I put a 6 inch scratch on the stern deck within 15 minutes of first launch of the mahogany S&G boat I built. Not intentionally, of course, but it served as a reminder that I had just spent the last 3 months building a boat, not a piece of furniture. I've had my new cedar strip boat in the water for a little over a month and it's quite a few "defects" already, mostly paddle scrape marks from rolling it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
on 2/8/02 1:55 am, PaddleWise at owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net wrote: A boat without scratches is a boat that hasn't been used ;-) Keith *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Keith wrote: on 2/8/02 1:55 am, PaddleWise at owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net wrote: "A boat without scratches is a boat that hasn't been used ;-)" There is only one way around this! We have to become modelers and every kayak we love has it's own 1/3rd scale model mirror image. It stays in perfect shape while we have adventures with it's big brother. THEN........you give the model to your little ones to paddle. Doesn't hurt at all. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
True enough... But a boat that hasn't been properly cared for... is a foolish waste of money! >A boat without scratches is a boat that hasn't been used ;-) > > >Keith Tom LeTourneau Wells, Maine *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/2/2002 7:53:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tletourn_at_maine.rr.com writes: > But a boat that hasn't been properly cared for... is a foolish waste of > money! > A pampered kayak is a waste of money. I try really hard to use my boats up! I might not get as much back in the resale, but I know I have gotten a whole lot more then my money's worth from the experience. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
a good boat, PROPERLY cared for, SHOULD LAST A LIFETIME! Who wants to sell a boat?? You should have a flotilla! My Eddyline is a '93. Red deck, scratches galore - newly re-gelcoated hull....I still get compliments EVERYTIME I take it out.... 'NUFF SAID.... Scott Simpson Anchorage Alaska "There is always one more thing you can do to influence any situation" Lt. Gen Harold Moore, USA (Ret) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just finished a 4 day intermediate course _at_ Deception Pass in Washington where we *played* in 5.1 knot currents with clients in new shiny boats bumping into granite and barnicals. Everyone of 'em had a handful of new scratches and gouges by the end of the trip. It comes with the territory. Funny thing is they were ALL proud of the scratches and the one fellow who really dinged his Caribou (needing Marine tex repair) was the coolest! Scratches mean you're using it! steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/2/2002 8:36:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sc_at_gci.net writes: > a good boat, PROPERLY cared for, SHOULD LAST A LIFETIME! Who wants to sell a > boat?? You should have a flotilla! Actually, I've never sold a kayak. I've given a few away, and I've had a couple stolen. I was just trying to speculate as to what it was these more anal types were so concerned about with their boats. And just what qualifies as "PROPERLY" caring for your boat? I crash my boat into rocks, and bang it against docks, and drag it along the beach. Hell, I use my boat for teaching classes! Sure, I could use the company's boats, but why would I want to? Whatever damage I do to my boat, I'm sure I can fix. > > My Eddyline is a '93. Red deck, scratches galore - newly re-gelcoated > hull....I still get compliments EVERYTIME I take it out.... Good for you! I've never even bothered to remove the black type from the PVC pipe I used to make the grab loops. I'm not looking for compliments. I'm more interested in performance and being able to enjoy the sport without having to base my decisions on whether or not I might get a scratch in my boat. I guess this is a classic case of different strokes for different folks :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
wrote: I just finished a 4 day intermediate course _at_ Deception Pass in Washington where we *played* in 5.1 knot currents with clients in new shiny boats bumping into granite and barnicals. Everyone of 'em had a handful of new scratches and gouges by the end of the trip. It comes with the territory. Funny thing is they were ALL proud of the scratches and the one fellow who really dinged his Caribou (needing Marine tex repair) was the coolest! Scratches mean you're using it! steve Yea that happens and it's a good thing because why else are we there? Somewhere a long time ago I heard that a man is the sum total of his scars. To be sure that did not mean just the physical. I have an old Chouinard bamboo shaft ice axe. I can tell you the history of every ding on it, every mountain I ever took it on, and the memories are good. Got a few on me too, and I can tell you how they came to be there. Most good, but not all. It's a road map of your life, and your soul too I suppose, and good, or bad, they're yours, just like your kayak, and mine too. But I will tell anyone who cares to listen, I don't want no flamin' scratches on my strip built, and you don't ever ever ever drag my SOF through the sand. This polite forum forbids me to express my feelings about dragging kayaks through rocks. Now that I have that off my chest I'll return to my usual controlled self. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kevin Nelson wrote: >But I will tell anyone who cares to listen, I don't want no flamin' scratches on my strip built, If it comes down to the choice, I'll scratch my strip built rather than my person 100 times out of 100. >you don't ever ever ever drag my SOF through the sand. >This polite forum forbids me to express my feelings about dragging kayaks through rocks. There's a difference between use and abuse. If you can reasonably avoid it, and still do the damage, it's abuse. If you're out having fun with it, and stuff happens, that's use, and experience for the paddler. It's all worth it in the grand scheme of things. Again, dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks. Shawn Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn Baker wrote: > > Kevin Nelson wrote: > >But I will tell anyone who cares to listen, I don't want no flamin' > scratches on my strip built, > > If it comes down to the choice, I'll scratch my strip built rather than > my person 100 times out of 100. Reminds me of my first trip in a new WW canoe, lining up to run Edge of the World, a Class IV on the Amicolola River in North Georgia. "Let's see, where will I need to be to ensure I don't put any scratches on my new hull? What am I saying? Where do I need to be to ensure I don't put any scratches on my helmet?!" -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My Current Designs Extreme is about two months old and has already taken a pretty good beating to the deck and hull. At about the two year mark I imagine it will sink. I guess you can count me in the "drive it, er, I mean 'paddle it' like ya ain't got a dime in it" club. :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Easily, Steve having mashed a helmet to pulp once instead of my head. Unfortunately the vehicle didn't fare much better than the helmet. I missed Shawns E due to a change in systems, but given the choice I would choose the boat too, but knowing all this in advance of course, I'd rent a plastic boat instead. I still don't want no flamin' scratches in my strip built. Kevin writes: Shawn Baker wrote: > > Kevin Nelson wrote: > >But I will tell anyone who cares to listen, I don't want no flamin' > scratches on my strip built, > > If it comes down to the choice, I'll scratch my strip built rather than > my person 100 times out of 100. Reminds me of my first trip in a new WW canoe, lining up to run Edge of the World, a Class IV on the Amicolola River in North Georgia. "Let's see, where will I need to be to ensure I don't put any scratches on my new hull? What am I saying? Where do I need to be to ensure I don't put any scratches on my helmet?!" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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