I am looking to purchase a new touring paddle for my husbands 50th birthday. He has been kayaking for about 10 years having used several paddles that haven't been quite right (latest Werner San Juan 230 cm). We would like to make sure that he gets the right paddle for once. It is tough here in Vermont finding shops that have these high end paddles to try or to find folks who work in these shops that know enough to actually sort this out with us. So I am asking for any feed back you may have. From our research we are looking at the carbon fiber paddles made by AT (bent shaft), Lightning and Epic. The consideration when trying to pick a paddle for him are: 1. He has arthritis in his shoulders and back and has wrists that are not very flexible. He wants a paddle that is easy on his body. 2. He is left handed but has used right hand control and right handed feathering. 3. He has a hard time pivoting the paddle because of his stiff wrists. For example it is hard to do a high brace on the left side with right hand control. When going back to paddling on the right the blade angle is in the wrong position, at times causing him to roll over. 4. He has big hands and would like a grip that positively locates the paddle blade and fits his hands. 5. He is a strong paddler, having been a builder for 25 years and doing a lot of sports but is not interested in racing or surfing. He likes to practice bracing and rolling. 6. While he would like a blade that is suitable for a strong paddler, he also wants one that will provide easy paddling when he is sore and tired. Considering all this, the questions that have come up are: 1.. Should the issues with his body be an over whelming reason to by an AT paddle? 2.. Which of these paddles has a grip more suitable for bigger hands and provides positive location? 3.. All offer different size blades. Should he get the larger blade? 4.. Should he get a paddle feathered at 45 degrees, go unfeathered, or try left hand control to deal with his wrist pivoting problem? 5.. Do you sacrifice anything with a bent like is it harder to do low braces? 6.. Any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks, Julie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Scheckman/Hackbarth" <scheckmn_at_together.net> > 3. He has a hard time pivoting the paddle because of his stiff wrists. For > example it is hard to do a high brace on the left side with right hand > control. When going back to paddling on the right the blade angle is in the > wrong position, at times causing him to roll over. I am one of those who thinks that the control hand should only be used when paddling forward with a regular stroke. When bracing, sculling, rolling and drawing, the control should be in the hand closest to the active blade. It could be awkward to learn this after many years of paddling the other way, however. If you teach yourself to switch control hands for bracing, sculling, rolling and drawing, the problem of feather angle goes away. > 1.. Should the issues with his body be an over whelming reason to by an AT > paddle? That depends - a bent shaft is easier on the wrist joints for some (like me), but others aren't convinced. He'd really have to try it. Overall, the AT is an excellent paddle, if a tad pricey. > 4. He has big hands and would like a grip that positively locates the paddle > blade and fits his hands. > 2.. Which of these paddles has a grip more suitable for bigger hands and > provides positive location? There isn't a noticable difference in the shaft sizes in these paddles that I can remember. I have big hands (long, but not wide) too. I find bent shafts are better for positive location regardless of shaft size. For shafts that are oval, it is possible to "bulk up" the grip area by adding an index (a strip of plastic in a U or V shape) along the grip area and hold it in place with shrink wrap tubing. > 3.. All offer different size blades. Should he get the larger blade? A larger blade means more load on his joints - he might be better off with a smaller blade. However, too small a blade would lead to a rapid tempo, which may be worse. Since he's strong, a mid-sized blade may be a good compromise. > 4.. Should he get a paddle feathered at 45 degrees, go unfeathered, or try > left hand control to deal with his wrist pivoting problem? Epic and AT have the option of a variable feather - he would be able to set any angle he wishes. That would allow him to find a comfortable angle. > 5.. Do you sacrifice anything with a bent like is it harder to do low > braces? That seems to vary with the paddler - I find that they aren't a problem. The only thing that takes getting used to is a running draw - the bent shaft tends to twist in this case. Werner makes a neutral bent shaft that should avoid this. > 6.. Any thoughts or recommendations? Consider the neutral bent shaft of Werner. I'd recommend Lendal, except they don't offer a smaller blade size - even their smallest one is on the big side. If he's handy with wood - consider making a Greenland-style paddle - they tend to be easy on the joints. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a class that Derek Hutchinson was teaching earlier this year, the same subject came up because he was advocating a 90 degree feather. When questioned about it being hard on the wrists, his response was that rather than rotating the wrist, the right forearm should be raised from the elbow joint (you still need to keep the elbow tucked in tight to avoid injuries). As a result of this class and learning the correct way to use a 90 deg feathered paddle, I wound up buying one of Derek's Toksook paddles. It is heavy (41 oz), extremely strong, 90 deg feather only, but the blades offer more support on braces, sculling strokes etc than any other paddle I have tried. The 90 deg feather coupled with an oval shaft make it very easy to know the position of the blades at all time. This is now my favorite paddle in my collection. Just my 2 cents, Steve Holtzman > 3. He has a hard time pivoting the paddle because of his stiff wrists. For > example it is hard to do a high brace on the left side with right hand > control. When going back to paddling on the right the blade angle is in the > wrong position, at times causing him to roll over. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael wrote: >I am one of those who thinks that the control hand >should only be used when paddling forward with a >regular stroke. G'Day, Does the idea of a control hand also involve the 'cocked wrist' technique? Its arguable there is no need to use a cocked wrist whether the paddle is feathered or unfeathered. Seems to me the cocked wrist 'control hand' technique is not appropriate to anyone with a wrist problem. Having suffered chronic stress induced arthritis in a previous life I'm forever grateful to the physiotherapist/kayaker (Buzz Powell) who showed me how to paddle without using a cocked wrist and how to reduce the effort in forward paddling. (I'm reliably told that Buzz has been known to stop in the middle of a sea kayak race to have a chat with passing boats while the rest of the racers struggle to catch up with her!) All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> > Michael wrote: > >I am one of those who thinks that the control hand > >should only be used when paddling forward with a > >regular stroke. > > Does the idea of a control hand also involve the 'cocked wrist' technique? It shouldn't have to but usually does. > Its arguable there is no need to use a cocked wrist whether the paddle is > feathered or unfeathered. True! Ideally, you can get a paddle with a feather angle that matches your paddling style in such a way that wrist cocking is reduced to a minimum. To make minor corrections while paddling, some wrist cocking will occur. If you're set up right, the amount of angle involved should be small. In general, you don't want to mess around with switching control hands in forward paddling, since it's confusing. Switching control hands while bracing etc, seems more natural, since there's a significant "sidedness" to the action. > Seems to me the cocked wrist 'control hand' > technique is not appropriate to anyone with a wrist problem. Agreed - in fact I'd go further and say it is not appropriate if you want to avoid future problems. > Having suffered chronic stress induced arthritis in a previous life I'm > forever grateful to the physiotherapist/kayaker (Buzz Powell) who showed me > how to paddle without using a cocked wrist and how to reduce the effort in > forward paddling. With the combination of a bent-shaft and variable-feather-angle paddle, as well as a loose grip on the paddle in most conditions, I've pretty much eliminated problems in my wrists. With my Greenland-style paddle, the close hand spacing eliminates the need for a bent shaft and the loose grip makes it comfortable. I'm still dealing with elbow (chronic strained ligament [left]) and shoulder (rotator cuff) problems. Rest for the former and specific exercises (which I don't do regularly enough) for the latter. Old age is creeping up!* Mike * My sister informed me last night that I'm a great uncle. It seems our "baby brother" is now a grandfather! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
2 centavos worth on a Saturday morn: The bents do relieve alot of gripping and alignment issues for some. i'd go with smaller rather than larger blades. Adjustable offset and length paddles are very sweet, tho more $$$. Go LIGHT. You probably should try a Greenland paddle, as that's a sure fire way (IMO) to address alot of the issues you have. Bracing and rolling are no problem once you learn the techniqe and balance points of the small blades. Learn to develop a symetric stroke. Right hand controls right blade, left hand/ left blade. I use this technique to eliminate offsidedness, overused control hand and give my body some balance. Cocking one elbow into the air to rotate a 90º paddle seems un-balanced to me. A sea trial is in order. Even if you mail order and have the option to return. We're talkin' about a chunk of $$$ and some technical issues. we do it all the time. Consider some yoga and stretching to build flexibility. It sure helps this old salt. good luck steve aldercreek.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Among other things "Scheckman/Hackbarth" scheckmn_at_together.net asked: 2. He is left handed but has used right hand control and right handed feathering. Feather opposite handedness is probably the best way anyway but he should probably stick with it if he has already developed reflexive bracing this way. 3. He has a hard time pivoting the paddle because of his stiff wrists. For example it is hard to do a high brace on the left side with right hand control. When going back to paddling on the right the blade angle is in the wrong position, at times causing him to roll over. I'd go even further than Michael (who advocated LOW HAND CONTROL for everything but the forward stroke) and suggest controlling the paddle with the hand nearest the active blade at nearly all times including the forward stroke. To save me time the following is culled from the "Paddling" manual on our website (there is also lots more related info there for those who care to visit): "All of the strokes and braces are the most powerful when you are pulling one arm back as though your forearm is a rope tied to the paddle by your fingers and your pushing hand pushes directly in line with your forearm and wrist. The paddle shaft, your wrist and your elbow should all be in a straight line with your elbow leading (when pulling) or pushing directly behind your hand much like making a straight punch. Any bend or angle (more commonly seen with the pushing arm) will weaken a strokes power and effectiveness. Think of it as giving your strokes and braces an added punch. Worse, bending your wrist either back or side to side can lead to repetitive stress injuries. To minimize the stress on your wrists do not bend the wrist back to "control" a feathered paddle (as is almost universally taught) and also hold the paddle with as loose a grip as you can. With any feather your wrists should also not bend side to side to follow the changing shaft angle throughout the stroke. In other words, the shaft should pivot in your hand and not bend your wrist. This is important whether you paddle feathered or unfeathered. With any feather angle control the blade with the hand nearest the water and relax the upper hand so the paddle can rotate in the hand that is pushing. This way you don't bend your wrist when paddling feathered and you do not have to lift your elbow out like a boxer's hook if you paddle unfeathered (to take out the 45 degree rotation you put on the blade by lifting the upper hand from your elbow). With any feather it is more efficient to push with your elbow starting at your side and the key to doing this is LOW HAND control. Tip: if you hold the paddle loosely between strokes the rotating moment you put on it while lifting can be used to spin it a little further into position with needing to bend your wrist at all. A good paddle will also make this adjustment to the angle if necessary as the blade enters the water. If you have to physically immobilize your wrists with braces or tape until you learn to paddle without bending them, do it.. They will thank you for it later." 6. While he would like a blade that is suitable for a strong paddler, he also wants one that will provide easy paddling when he is sore and tired. I'd worry more about the length of the paddle than the blade area for this reason. The longer lever arm on a long paddle puts more strain on ones body during the stroke. Think of climbing a hill in too high a gear on a bicycle. If you try to make the blade too small the slippage in the water will cause the blade to be more squirrelly (and if narrower increase the flutter rate when strongly pulled). Considering all this, the questions that have come up are: 1.. Should the issues with his body be an over whelming reason to by an AT paddle? Not at all. My experience is that unfeathered paddlers are the ones who like the AT the best. As a feathered paddler I was annoyed by having my hand that is pushing (on the non-control side) pried open by the bent shaft and strong oval combination of that shaft. An unfeathered paddler (or one using a feather angle that is stroke neutral for them--like 45 degrees) will not have this problem and can enjoy the great hand fit of this very ovalled shaft. . 2.. Which of these paddles has a grip more suitable for bigger hands and provides positive location? I have huge hands but all these (and most other shafts with reasonable amount of oval) work well for me using the techniques in our "Paddling Skills" manual. With my technique I am usually holding the paddle very loosely anyhow so this is not an issue. Holding the paddle too tightly and bending your pushing wrist are the usual causes of wrist problems. I started kayaking with wrist problems from too many hard pole plants in icy moguls (before I conceived of the shock absorber ski pole). I had to develop a low hand control technique or give up paddling with feathered paddles as a result very early in my sea kayaking life. Haven't had any serious paddling related wrist problems since (even on the day we paddled 70 miles). 3.. All offer different size blades. Should he get the larger blade? No, nothing much to gain unless maybe your into extremes of acceleration to catch waves to surf. In which case I'd switch to a much shorter paddle (under 205cm) like my WW paddle to lower the gear for fast starts. Lots to loose like having it blown about more in strong winds. This will get worse the longer the paddle is because the blade will be further away and less in control of your hand. 4.. Should he get a paddle feathered at 45 degrees, go unfeathered, or try left hand control to deal with his wrist pivoting problem? Before anyone switches to 45 to 60 degrees I'd suggest they try it out in a 25+ knot wind to see how they will like it then. Same advice for anyone thinking of paddling unfeathered for that matter. Headwind problems pretty much go away with feathers greater than 70 degrees. Same advice for anyone thinking of buying the biggest blades or even a longer paddle. Try it in a high wind! 5.. Do you sacrifice anything with a bent like is it harder to do low braces? Other than what I said above about prying my hand open when feathering (and a little more trouble shifting your hands around on the paddle-such as, to widen your hand position in order to lower your gear for acceleration or paddling into strong winds) none that I can think of. 6.. Any thoughts or recommendations? Test them out before buying, or better yet get a return guarantee for a reasonable testing time on the paddle you choose to buy. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I suggest a Greenland paddle, which is an excellent paddle for sculling and rolling, has good indexing, and is easy on the joints and muscles. Among other things, Greenland paddles have larger looms than most fiberglass paddles, so they fit large hands better. The best solution might be for your husband to make his own Greenland paddle. A self-made paddle can be proportioned to your husband's dimensions, and is very inexpensive to make. There is an illustrated step-by-step article on how to make a Greenland paddle on the Paddlewise Web site. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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