Re: [Paddlewise] Switching paddle types

In a message dated 9/16/2002 4:27:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com writes:


> >
> >
> >Why not? Can you take a "euro" paddle and maintain the same depth 
> >and maintain an adequate indexing with a round or oval shaft as 
> >opposed to say, a GP that has longer blades that aid in indexing? 
> >Possibly, but the GP itself would be far more natural at it than a 
> >"euro." Fast cadences with a sliding stroke on a GP are relatively 
> >simple, particularly in the inquired of conditions Ralph asked of, 
> >moreso say, than a "euro". Again, the blade length/width assists in 
> >the hand position.
> 
> Yes, I can. Could you explain what you mean by "natural". Sliding 
> strokes with a euro are very easy, you just slide your hands. You 
> don't even need to open your hand.

In my opinion, the shift of hands across the blades of a GP, with its long 
outward tapering blades, larger diameter loom (shaft) and blade roots allow a 
precise entry and exit. I suppose the term "natural" comes from not having to 
cock a wrist back on the control side as one slides up a feathered "euro". 
With a GP there is no feather, control hand or thin edgy blades, just a 
symetrical paddle that can be slid from side to side very simply or dare I 
say..."naturally". 
> 
> >
> >>  >
> >>>In bad winds, a GP, in my opinion, is much less susceptable to 
> >>>wind. It stays
> >>>lower along the deck for one thing and the edges are much finer and 
> offer
> >>>much less surface to be grabbed by the wind. When one goes 
> >>>vertical the blade
> >>>is typically deeper and is still much less of a target for wind. For sea
> >>>kayaking I've not gone back to the other side. I find no reason as GP's 
> are
> >>>again, in my opinion, emeinently more useful.
> >>
> >>I am confused about why a euro does not stay close to the deck like a
> >>GP. What is it about the euro that makes it so this technique is not
> >>possible? And again, why can't you use a sliding stroke to reduce the
> >>exposed area of the blade?
> >>
> >
> >
> >Next time you take to sea Nick, try a sliding stroke with a "euro" 
> >where your hand goes up to the throat of the blade and the other 
> >blade is buried deep. Then try it with the Greenland. Incidentally, 
> >in all the paddle technique primers I've read and been instructed 
> >from one of the more common issues is not to bury the (euro) blade 
> >too deeply. Additionally, If you slide the stroke on a "euro" and a 
> >foot or two of shaft are submerged it seems to me the blade would 
> >also be much harder to retrieve than a GP. It seems then to follow, 
> >that the "Euro" on a sliding stroke would then be less effective as 
> >it would take longer for the next stroke exposing one to harsher 
> >conditions and negating the need for such a practice in the 
> >conditions discussed in the string.
> 
> Can you explain how the burying a blade deep is good for one kind of 
> blade and not for another. 
> 
> The technique for a sliding stroke, often used for quick propulsion or wind 
> resistance, (such as the original inquiry of this thread), slides the 
> outboard hand along the outboard blade, the inboard hand slides up around 
> the center of the loom and sinks all of the inboard blade plus some loom 
> into the water. Most blades are in the + 30 inch length category and 
> commonly 35 inches plus. The lift generated is excellent. A "euro" could do 
> it, sure, but then as discussed in the answer to your previous question I 
> don't find it as simple to achieve the same effect owing to feathering, 
> degree of, control hand, dihedryl of blade, etc. I don't believe using a 
> sliding stroke on the "euro" is as easy when it typically goes in past the 
> knee  and one must push/pull a wider blade through the water, taking it out 
> at the hip. 
> 
Why do you feel an extended paddle grip 
> would force the euro paddle to go any deeper than a GP. 

You are correct, it wouldn't.

A low stroke > will not deeply submerge any blade. Why would a GP be easier to 
> get 
> out of the water if it just as deep as the euro?

As the GP comes out of the water past the hip and the "euro" at about the hip 
the slice upwards of the GP seems quicker. As it is past your hip the angle 
upward is less severe. It certainly feels easier pushing a GP from about the 
knee past the hip. It is most likely subjective, whether one prefers either 
type, but a shorter stroke with a "euro" limits its efficiency as subjected 
to the original inquiry of the thread that asked of technique for quick 
propulsion and wind shedding values in dicey areas.

> 
> What is it about the geometry of the GP that makes the geometry of 
> its stroke any different from a euro? 

I wouldn't even fathom explaining the geometrical difference of GP versus a 
"euro". Just looking at them contrastingly speaks volumes. On the serious 
side, I think its stroke is much different than that of a "euro". One stroke 
being taught today, the canted blade stroke, has an entry at about the knee 
and the blade canted between 30-40 degrees. One crunches forward, pushing 
down to achieve torso leverage, not side to side as in rotation. The stroke 
slices upward once past the hip. 


Since it is hard to grip the > blade wouldn't you expect that the euro would 
> actually not go as deep as a GP?

And thus not shed wind as effectively? 


> 
> >
> >>
> >>If the advantage of a GP is a low stroke posture and the ability to
> >>do a sliding stroke, I don't know why these advantages are not
> >>available to the euro.
> >>
> >
> >
> >They are. But low stroke posture isn't the only "advantage", just 
> >one attribute of that particular paddle (GP). Again, try a sliding 
> >stroke with a "euro" in high winds and rough seas and do it with a 
> >GP, assuming you are competent with it and tell me what is more 
> >naturally conducive to that maneuver.
> 
> This is the old "if you don't agree with me, you must be doing it 
> wrong" argument. If you can't explain the difference how do you know 
> it exists.
> 
C'mon Nick, I've not been taught that in debate school. It's a nice label 
otherwise! Good Paddling, Sir.

Respectfully,

Rob G


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