G'day, I've been trying to improve my high bracing for coping with surf and have run into differences of opinion on technique between trainers who are all genuinely expert. One says don't use high brace at all too high a risk of shoulder dislocation, two say keep the elbows rigidly locked to the body to avoid possibility of shoulder dislocation. A fourth says to be prepared to extend the arm, on the support blade side, away from the body (but not upwards) to get full advantage of the brace. He also gave the impression that the brace is a fluid almost relaxed operation. There seems to be a major difference between what is done for surf and the sculling high brace in non surf conditions, the fourth trainer advocated an extended arm, flexible torso approach for both. Not having much in the way of upper body muscle my own predilection is to lock my elbows in, but it would be useful to know what others think and what is officially recommended by US training authorities. Hope my description is adequate. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The first thing you need to understand about doing a brace, high or low, in the surf is that it is really only intended to be a support to help you to put the boat on edge. Lately I have been emphasizing edge control over the brace itself in my classes which seems to make it easier for most people to understand and learn. It is entirely possible to lean the boat into a wave and remain upright without the use of the paddle. I have on several occasions thrown my paddle away and braced into a wave using just my bare hands. So the point I am trying to make here is that one does not need to exert a tremendous amount of force into the wave with the paddle in order to perform an effective brace. When performing a brace into a wave you want the paddle to extend straight into the face of the wave with the shaft of the paddle more or less parallel to the horizon. So if the wave is small then you will want to use a low brace. If the wave is larger you will need to bring the paddle up higher into a high brace. You should never be reaching up or down into the wave. Once you understand how it works then you will see that it is really not necessary to be extending your arm away from your body. Whether you lock your elbows against your body or simply hold them close to the body I think is a matter of personal preference. What you do not want to be doing is straightening out your bracing arm, and you absolutely should never get your elbow anywhere even approaching above your shoulder! Remember that what is really important here is that you edge the boat into the face of the wave. Since this requires a delicate sense of balance we will use the water moving up the face of the wave to support our paddle and assist in our balancing the boat on edge. I hope this helps :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott wrote:- > When performing a brace into a wave you >want the paddle to extend straight into the >face of the wave with the shaft of the paddle >more or less parallel to the horizon. Doug wrote: - >what I always avoid with the arm in an extended >position -- which is rare -- and allowing it to >rotate back above the head, as _that_ is the most >likely time for a dislocation. Jochen wrote: - >It takes several years (4-5) until my problems >came down with this "small" dislocations, G'Day Scott, Doug, Jochen and Paddlewise, That helped a lot. I definitely don't want to lose several years of kayaking! So will stick to tucking my elbows close to the body. It raises another question. One of the things I sometimes get wrong is maintaining an edge, sometimes its more of a lean than an edge, too long. So the wave dissipates and I fall in towards the wave. If I understand correctly, with elbows locked to the body the angle of the paddle is set by edging only, so the angle of the wave sets the degree of edging needed. If you then did no more than concentrate on keeping the boat and paddle horizontal by edging would this overcome the tendency to overcompensate and fall into the wave? All the best and thanks, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bracing while broached on a wave is a highly dynamic process. The wave is constantly changing with respect to force and shape, and the paddler needs to adjust the edge and blade handling accordingly. It's one thing to know this intellectually, but of course it takes lots of waves before the body learns its lessons.... Although the notion of protecting the shoulders by keeping elbows close to the body is valid, it would be conterproductive to take it to the extreme of "locking" elbows in position. This would limit your ability to adapt to the changing wave. Further, any effort to stiffen (lock) one part of the body would almost certainly tend to generalize -- and so your edging would suffer as well. The remedy would then be swift and sure: nothing like a good surf tumble to loosen those muscles and joints! Bob V >> One of the things I sometimes get wrong is maintaining an > edge, sometimes its more of a lean than an edge, too long. So the wave > dissipates and I fall in towards the wave. > If I understand correctly, with elbows locked to the body the angle of the > paddle is set by edging only, so the angle of the wave sets the degree of > edging needed. If you then did no more than concentrate on keeping the boat > and paddle horizontal by edging would this overcome the tendency to > overcompensate and fall into the wave? > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Two died this weekend while kayaking on Lake Superior out of Grand Marais, MN. http://www.kbjr.com/morenews/morenews-story.asp?n=10 Word is very rough conditions at the time they departed and possibly no cold water immersion protection. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I was out on Superior north of there on Saturday. The morning was a little rough, but no big deal. The wind picked up greatly in the afternoon after we were off the water. Aaron White wrote: > Word is very rough conditions at the time they departed and possibly no cold water > immersion protection. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott said: <snip> <<<Once you understand how it works then you will see that it is really not necessary to be extending your arm away from your body. Whether you lock your elbows against your body or simply hold them close to the body I think is a matter of personal preference. What you do not want to be doing is straightening out your bracing arm, and you absolutely should never get your elbow anywhere even approaching above your shoulder>>> Good advice Scott, as usual when it comes to surf yaking. I'll ring the bells of affirmation here. Generally, I try myself to maintain the above paradigm, but occasionally I do need to poke my blade into a higher-than-I-like position. While I do have strong shoulders, what I always avoid with the arm in an extended position -- which is rare -- and allowing it to rotate back above the head, as _that_ is the most likely time for a dislocation. An appropriate time where I'd employ a cautious extention would be back surfing where I have good distal positioning of the blade above the bow, that allows a fudge factor before the arm goes perpendicular (the dislocation provocation point). Dislocations, once they occur, make it very difficult if not impossible to regain the former strength that helped prevent less forcefully caused dislocations. Best to avoid all injury in the first place. So keep 'dem elbows bent and close to yur bod -- and yur love bud (ie - someone you love). Hey Scott, checked out the surfer-girl movie "Blue Crush" yet? Way cool. Doug (PS, I incorrectly reported in that post about the incident off Victoria that a top paddler was present. I had my information mixed up. The paddlers were all fairly average in ability - IMHO). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi! Doug: > Dislocations, once they occur, make it very difficult if not impossible > to regain the former strength that helped prevent less forcefully caused > dislocations. Best to avoid all injury in the first place. Yipp! While I was 15 or 16, I completeley dislocated my right shoulder, by playing basketball! It takes several years (4-5) until my problems came down with this "small" dislocations, a point where my shoulder is still "in" but canīt move and is fixed backwards. This dislocation and the fear for a new one while I might be paddling WW, was one of the reasons for me to stop whitewater padling a few years later. Meanwhile Iīm 30 and there still is the fear and the "feeling" that it might happen again, if I donīt pay attention to avoid some special moves and wrong kind of pressure. All the time this fear is somewhere in your mind and you know this little devil waits for your mistake... By playing canoepolo, thereīre had been few moments with deep and wide arm bracing where I could feel how close I was to a new dislocation and the only way was to hold the strength (by msucles) on the shoulder by the brace, so nothing happened. Paddling is a great way to avoid shoulder dislocations also. You build up this delta muscle on the shoulder and so far this muscle got its basic strength, so dislocations are less probable. happy padling - Jochen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jochen said: <snip> <<<Paddling is a great way to avoid shoulder dislocations also. You build up this delta muscle on the shoulder and so far this muscle got its basic strength, so dislocations are less probable. happy paddling - Jochen>>> This is true. There are other shoulder development programs. I'm picking up a rowing machine in the new year. I also find storm paddling very conducive to strong shoulder development. After a few hours out (you know, those trips where the last few minutes find you actually grunting with every stroke) really push the physicality and with good rest and recovery norms after, with ice-downs, well...you just get stronger. Some of us do have native strength in the shoulders, and can often take more chances. The folks I see dislocating shoulders (in surf) are the ones who are not competent or familiar in the surf zone to begine with (wave mechanics, rolling form, etc.), and physically not up to the waves. Proper shoulder defense is only part of the equation. Doug L *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> One of the things I sometimes get wrong is maintaining an > edge, sometimes its more of a lean than an edge, too long. So the wave > dissipates and I fall in towards the wave. > If I understand correctly, with elbows locked to the body the angle of > the > paddle is set by edging only, so the angle of the wave sets the degree of > edging needed. If you then did no more than concentrate on keeping the boat > and paddle horizontal by edging would this overcome the tendency to > overcompensate and fall into the wave? > OK, you really want to concentrate more on performing an edge, tilting the boat with the hips, then leaning your body into the wave. The problem with a "lean" is, as you have found out, it can be difficult to recover from. If you are falling into the wave it may be a result of too much lean, as you say, or as the wave dissipates the wave begins to pass you by and you find yourself bracing on the back of the wave. This is a fairly common mistake. There is not any water movement on the back of a wave that will support your paddle brace -- only in the face of the wave. As Bob V. says, you really do not want to "lock" any part of your body in the surf. You will be better off trying to remain loose, and prepared for what might happen next. S&*t happens fast in the surf and you must be ready for it. The angle of the paddle is set by you! Like I said earlier, you want to try to keep the paddle horizontal, or level. Ideally there should be no angle at all. The amount of edging required is set by the force of the wave, not the angle. The reason we edge the boat into the wave is to present the rounded bottom of the hull to the oncoming water (the water coming from the shore, not the wave) as the boat slides down the face of the wave towards the shore in it's broached position. By doing this we allow the water to slide under the boat rather then pile up on the chine and lever us over, which is what would happen if you leaned away from the wave. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott wrote: <snip>>>>>>OK, you really want to concentrate more on performing an edge, tilting the boat with the hips, then leaning your body into the wave. The problem with a "lean" is, as you have found out, it can be difficult to recover from. If you are falling into the wave it may be a result of too much lean, as you say, or as the wave dissipates the wave begins to pass you by and you find yourself bracing on the back of the wave. This is a fairly common mistake. There is not any water movement on the back of a wave that will support your paddle brace -- only in the face of the wave.<<<<<<SNIP> I agree with this and most of what others have written about this problem but would like to add a little more. Once while instructing my girlfriend in the technique of side surfing in fairly gentle 2 or 3 foot surf of Makah Bay (near the NW corner of WA) she kept falling over into the wave while side surfing. I tried instructing her to gradually straighten up as the wave dissipated, to maintain that dynamic balance between her tilted kayak and how much upwelling water was supporting her paddle. Even though she was trying to do that she still was having a lot of difficulty and capsizing regularly. We eventually traded kayaks and she no longer had the problem (in my 2" narrower kayak), but now I was coming close to getting dumped into the waves and was only preventing being capsized by a very hard brace back upright. What was going on? My new analysis was that her fairly low flat deck on her 25" wide kayak made for quite a lip (and a longer lever sticking out to the side) for the wave to grab hold of when the kayak was tilted into the wave. Unfortunately once that lip was caught under the wave it wasn't nearly as easy to un-tilt it again as the narrower kayaks I was familiar with had been. Sometimes when a little bit bigger waves were dumping on the beach I would have to fling myself as hard as I could into the wave with my arm held high. This was both so I could slice my torso into the wave in the thinnest way and also keep my paddle blade out of the waves grip. I realize that this is not likely an ACA or BCU recommended technique. A hard brace or even the paddle blade being caught by the wave's dumping lip could dislocate my shoulder if I didn't let go of the paddle with the wave side hand (if the force lifting my arm up was too powerful to allow me to maintain position--or if I'd got "Maytagged" anyway because the dumping lip knocked me over). A friend of mine who was training (for a circumnavigation of the continental U.S.) in the Lapush, WA surf one January, tore his shoulder's rotator cuff while doing a low brace in the surf. I think this injury is a serious risk when low bracing in powerful surf because you can't let go of the paddle when it is being forced up into the crotch between your thumb and forefinger. Even though his paddle blade was not far from the kayak in the low brace position his arm was forced back and up way beyond its normal limits of motion. With a high brace I hold the paddle relatively loosely with my (into the wave side) fingers so that too violent an upward force can rip it from my grip. If that happens I capsize but hang onto my (feathered) paddle with the other hand (while holding it out far away from my head. The paddle thrashes around violently (and has occasionally caught the bottom and been torn out of that hand too) but usually I can hang on by letting my wrist be relatively limp so that the paddle blades can go thrashing around with the (rather violent) flow but still not hit me during its thrashings because I'm holding it away. When the wave passes I again find and grip the shaft with the other hand and roll back up. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
SCott wrote: - > The reason we edge the boat into the wave >is to present the rounded bottom of the hull >to the oncoming water SNIP By doing this we >allow the water to slide under the boat rather >then pile up on the chine and lever us over, Bob wrote: - >it would be conterproductive to take it to the >extreme of "locking" elbows in position. This >would limit your ability to adapt to the changing >wave. Further, any effort to stiffen (lock) one >part of the body would almost certainly tend to >generalize -- and so your edging would suffer Matt wrote: - >I think this injury is a serious risk when low >bracing in powerful surf because you can't let go >of the paddle when it is being forced up into the >crotch between your thumb and forefinger. SNIP >With a high brace I hold the paddle relatively >loosely with my (into the wave side) fingers so >that too violent an upward force can rip it from >my grip. G'Day, Lots of food for thought and points that just hadn't occurred to me. Hope Matt's friend recovered to be able to try his circumnavigation. After the Hawkesbury Classic this month it will be summertime here so I'm looking forward to "lots of waves!" Thanks all of you, PeterO (Australia) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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