Matt said: <big snippage both directions> <<< the next mistake (from the point of view of hindsight) may have been in not chasing down the victims kayak and bringing it back to him. This would be a no-brainer if there were at least three paddlers present but would have required some quick but considered decisions given only two paddlers. >>> Thanks for your insights on the above incident. "Never less than three" has always been sage advice, and here is another prime example. Interestingly enough, we had a club-related incident off Victoria waters a couple of weeks ago. It turns out the number five worked nicely. A little background digression, then the incident... We had a discussion a couple of months (or so ago) about PFD wearing, with Scott versus the world -- though others chimed in with various comments and considerations. I believe Gordin Warner posted a message about aberrant behavior, and though he got flame-broiled, most folks concurred that group paddle situations were the one time non-compliant paddlers might want to default to the wishes of the greater collective (least they be told they were unwelcome to join in, anyway). Well, there's this one fellow who will not join our club, but wants to join in on the paddling fun. The first time out he insisted the suggested PFD policy of actually wearing one (the waters around Victoria can hold hidden dangers - other than the Cadbasourus) didn't apply to him. He wasn't the type of person you could tell anything to. With gentle prodding from the assembly of gentlemanly club paddlers, he eventually started donning his PFD. Being a rather stout fellow, this was perhaps a good suggestion (though he would have perhaps had a little more reserve buoyancy than some of the rest of the fellows). With subsequent trips seeing a bit more challenging outings, the trip facilitator felt it was a fine idea to start insisting on the other tacit club requirement -- namely adequate immersion apparel. While size XXX isn't always easy to procure, a wet suit/paddling top is a suitable suggestion for Victoria's 14 degree Celsius waters. Obsequious to the end, he must have seen the light eventually. Finally, on an outing planned to Discovery Island from Victoria's out-lying shores across the often nasty Baynes Channel on a southerly ebb, the fellow shows up in a wet suit, with PFD on. The five paddlers leave shore. These Sunday paddles are an every-man-for-himself (or women) affair, though generally there is a little mentoring, some organization, and sweeps where there is a higher number of entry level paddlers. Part way across Baynes, the newer paddler disappears off the radar. It is a few minutes before someone notices: "Uh, where's ____?" "I dunno, but there's a kayak way over there in the current, heading south!" Perhaps he thought a kayaker is supposed to rotate his boat every 100 nautical miles. So, what to do? Fortunately, one of the paddlers is one of the best on the island, and went after the lost kayaker and his boat, along with another paddler. The other two organized into a stable position and called in a "Maday" for a PIW (Person in Water) Interestingly enough, one of the second paddlers, the one with the VHF handy, didn't know his location. The facilitator, beside the fellow on the radio, was able to give their position. While they both might have worried about one paddler heading off into current-central, with two taking off, it wasn't such a worry. A whale watching boat headed for the San Juans responded, as did the Coast guard Auxiliary -- which launched. The two rescuing paddlers were able to find the paddler and secure the errant kayak after 10 minutes. It was a struggle to get the paddler back in his kayak. He simple didn't understand the concept of swimming up onto the back deck, as opposed to his futile bobbing up-and-down method. Brute force won the day. Luckily the rescuers didn't pull any muscles. The whale watching Zodiac veered away as the rescue had been completed, while the CG Aux. Zodiac came out to ensure everyone was safe. In this case, five paddlers turned out to be just the right number, though if it had been the other four, they wouldn't have needed the fifth :-) And as it turned out, a wetsuit and PFD wasn't such a bad idea after all. Glad he didn't spill-out on the northerly flood into Haro Strait, especially if he went unnoticed even longer. Now, what about a course? Doug Lloyd (reporting from Victoria BC, where we just had a nice little 4.0 shaker emanating from the San Juans - Jolie, any Tsunamis?) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug' wrote >Well, there's this one fellow who will not >join our club, but wants to join in on the >paddling fun. G'Day Doug' I hope (for his sake) he at least joined the club after all the effort the members went to!! Its a perpetual source of wonder how dedicated kayak club organisers can be and how valuable the efforts of a good club are. All the best, PeterO (Who just came back from a grand surf training weekend at a club in Tathra 350km south of Sydney) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PeterO wrote: > Doug' wrote > >Well, there's this one fellow who will not > >join our club, but wants to join in on the > >paddling fun. > > G'Day Doug' > I hope (for his sake) he at least joined the club after all the effort > the members went to!! Its a perpetual source of wonder how dedicated kayak > club organisers can be and how valuable the efforts of a good club are. > One fellow in particular has been facilitating trips for a number of years now, every Sunday and Wednesday, year 'round. He's helped a heck of a lot of folks slide into kayaking...and he's past retirement age. The situation on the paddle in question was rather unusual. Lots of folks have capsized, but this time one got away. I'm not sure why, as I wasn't there. Paddlers can't come along unless they have given 3 days notice to the facilitator. This way, if there is a higher number of new paddlers, the trip can be modified or more experienced paddlers brought along. Interestingly enough, the club had a scheduled rescue practice session on the following Sunday with the Aux. Coast Guard, the same guys that came out to rescue the wayward paddler the week before. They Auxiliaries said the club members had done the correct thing calling in a Mayday, and not to hesitate to do it again when in doubt. The immersion apparel/PFD requirement may seem harsh to some, but it provides some basic backup wiggle room, if you know what I mean. > > All the best, PeterO > (Who just came back from a grand surf training > weekend at a club in Tathra 350km south of Sydney) Sounds like fun. Let us know if anything interesting came up. I thought it was interesting a couple of years ago coming down the west coast of Nootka Island, negotiating through the reefs into the shore break. There was a bunch of board surfers off the Bajo Reef point break. This is real wilderness surfing. They were all wearing helmets. It was the first time I'd ever seen surfies wearing protective gear. Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug' wrote >Let us know if anything interesting came up. G'Day Doug' and Paddlewise, Well I learn't heaps of elementary stuff that I needed to know, including how to set up for a roll while the surf was still breaking to take advantage of the wave. I've got some questions on high braces but will address those in a separate post. Finally on the last day a storm blew up and there were only three of us left so we adjourned to the Bega river and I practiced wind sprints for the Hawkesbury Classic (110km overnight race - end of October). Anyway came back to find companions comatose on the grass and a bunch of heifers licking the salt off their boats. And looking as if they fancied a good chew on the coamings. Now we didn't want to scare these cows as they were being conditioned (sorry - heifers I'm a city boy) so what to do? - quick as a flash a paddle was set up against a fence and draped with skirt and PFD - fastest scarecow in the west and very effective:~) All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> And as it turned out, a wetsuit and PFD wasn't such a bad idea after > all. OK, since you mentioned my name in this post I feel somewhat compelled to cause a little bit of trouble here. Those of you who have had enough of the pfd thing can stop reading now. It would seem to me that not only the pfd and wetsuit was handy in your aforementioned scenario, but so was a VHS transceiver, the skill and knowledge of some local paddlers, and a GPS, or perhaps a chart to note one's location could have been useful as well. And why was this all needed? Because these "club" trips are apparently conducted as "an every-man-for-himself (or women) affair." Seems fairly irresponsible to me. Had the trip been conducted in a more organized and responsible manner then I doubt little more would have been required other then one or two paddlers to perform an assisted rescue, if that! So what was most important here? That the pfd was being worn? That the wetsuit was being worn? That someone was carrying a radio? Should all of this equipment, and perhaps much more, be mandatory for every person on every single boat all of the time? Is the equipment more important then the fact that these people put a person at risk? Do we carry all of this "stuff" in order to increase, or decrease the risk? I am NOT anti pfd. I do feel that much more emphasis is put on the value of a pfd in this sport then it deserves. I do not consider the pfd to be any more, or less important then any other piece of rescue and safety gear. In the right scenario any single piece of equipment might save your life. That does not mean that one must always carry every piece of crap in their boat that they can fit or afford just in case! There needs to be some sort of applied intelligence when matching safety equipment to the type of paddling one's doing. To come out with blanket statements like "one must ALWAYS wear a pfd," or "wetsuit," or "carry a radio," or GPS, flares, etc., is wrong! OK, I'm done. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
With snips... Warner Family wrote: > > > >In this case, five paddlers turned out to be just the right number, > >though if it had been the other four, they wouldn't have needed the > >fifth :-) > Ok since my name was also mentioned I feel compelled to throw in a few words. > > The offensive person in this episode, I'll call him Fat Boy, simply to > slander the guilty, often shows up on these Sunday paddles uninvited. The > gentleman who organizes the Sunday and Wednesday paddles is 73 years old > and has been a great mentor for a large number of kayakers in Victoria. Anyone giving a 73 year old facilitator a bad time should be called "Fat Basta..." > > > As Doug said it was a struggle to get Fat Boy into first, his PFD, then > into his wet suit, which he always told us was stored under his front > hatch. I was on hand at one paddle when he was told no wet suit no > go. Now what can be plainer than that. Short of beating Fat Boy up or > holing his boat what can you do. I kind of side with Scott in that no one should be told that they have to wear certain gear, but it can be difficult getting larger folks back into their kayak after a capsize, and that is why I mentioned the weight factor - not to be rude. A wet suit can buy everyone so much more time. The fact that this fellow slipped away so easily down-current while in the proximity of good paddlers, shows the efficacy of backup immersion apparel. To be honest, I'd rather have a well trained, skilled paddler along on a trip wearing fleece that an unknown quantity along wearing a wet suit or dry suit. > > > > I believe this situation was exasperated by past behavior. On past trips > Fat Boy has dropped so far behind that he's caused the sweep (myself) to > paddle in endless circles just to keep him in front of me. I've seen him > paddle a crossing in such a way that caused a BC ferry to alter it's > course to avoid running him down. I've seen him drop out of group paddles > to take pictures without letting anyone know what he was doing. The one > piece of equipment he can always be counted on to wear is his radio. Not > VHF but AM so he can listen to the CBC. At least he has some class! > > > Did Fat Boy try to call out for help? Did he use a whistle or bang on his > hull? I don't know, but I'd be surprised if he had the fore thought to do > so. These Sunday paddles always include some sort of rescue practice > either rolls, Eskimo rescues off a bow, bracing practices or sometimes > towing. Fat Boy never participated in these exercises but has told me he > could roll and do a self rescue. Well, I could tell you about a little episode off the Storm Islands a few years ago with a paddler who was capable of less than initially indicated. I take nothing at face value anymore, nor do I expect other paddlers to not question me about skills, previous to a trip, and perhaps want to go on a test paddle. > > > Now here's where I part with Doug. I know these Sunday paddles are not > always every man/woman for themselves. I know this for a fact because I've > grown tired of giving up what could have been a great paddle, to perform > the shepherds role to see that some fool who has unwittingly got themselves > in over their head gets back safely. The every-man-for-himself was a direct quote from the facilitator. I try not to put words into peoples mouths, lest Matt get on my case for hampering report with assumptions, etc. > > > And finally to answer Scott's question. Yes. In these waters if you have > the safety equipment take it with you, wear it and know how to use it. Seems to me to that much of this comes down to what is reasonable. And as long as discussion is earnest while remaining charitable we shouldn't unnecessarily divide into polarized, argumentative camps that can't foster one of the intents of this listserver - namely the promotion of paddling safety. > > > PS. The name Fat Boy is a reference to the first nuclear bomb (he's always > been a time bomb just waiting to go off) and not his weight. And Doug I > can always us a fifth. Single malt is preferred. ;-) > > Gordin Warner > Flame me, torch me, do your worst - I've asbestos underwear. Not from me (flames that is). I like a paddler who wears his insulative undergarments! :-) Doug L *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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