Re: [Paddlewise] 6 Months in a Leaky Boat

"Doug Lloyd" <dougl_at_islandnet.com> said in a previous post:
>In terms of deficient lay-ups, I have a right to my opinions, 
and I still maintain this to be true in general.<

>I certainly don't want to belabour this thread anymore, but I did want

to clarify this sentence above, as apparently what I say on Paddlewise
has much farther reaching consequences than I had ever imagined a few
comments on a chat line could. 

Doug, while I haven't seen much opposing commentary on the list, I must
assume you're getting some sort of tongue-lashing back-channel.  If you
can't be honest here, can you be honest anywhere?  You are simply one
person, without commercial connections.  Aren't you entitled to your
opinions, the same as anyone else?

Lots of folks feel free to bash sponsons with impunity.  Can't Doug be
honest about his good and bad impressions of products by even reputable
manufacturers?  Every manufacturer has its good and bad points.  The
bad points should be aired publicly, too, so the boat-buying-public can
make an informed decision.

If anyone feels the need to bash Doug for his honesty, shame on you. 
Take someone to task for _how_ they say something, sure, but not for
saying it in the first place.  I don't believe Doug was specifically
bashing Seaward (or CD, either, for that matter), simply bringing up
some potential problems...if I were considering a boat purchase, I'd
sure want to know about both the good and bad points.

>I'm currently thinking about another boat for long-range trips, 
something lighter and more manoeuvrable than my "point-and-shoot"
Nordkapp. I'd like something with a chine hull and lots of gear
capacity. The Romany 18 ...  The Romany kayaks vary so widely from
advertised weights...

More maneuverable, probably.  Lighter?  Maybe lighter than your HMS
Nordkapp dreadnought, but not a light boat by any means.  57 lbs., I
think, is the advertised weight.  Not lightweight for a glass boat. 
And resin heavy?  Oh, yes, resin heavy.  The Explorer 18 is a
beautifully designed boat, but from what I've heard and seen, the
Quality Control doesn't quite match up to the design.  It makes no
sense to me to have a 10 lb. overweight resin-heavy kayak.  Why not an
extra 5 lbs. of glass or kevlar set in 5 lbs extra resin.  Less
flaking, less cracking, less brittle, more strength, more abrasion
resistance.  Same carry weight.

I think Mr. Dennis' (NDK) and Mr. Goodman's (VCP) goals of having a
near-indestructible boat are admirably met, but could be met better
with a little better layup.  If we don't mind that weight, we could fit
even more glass into the layup if we vacuum-bagged the boats...even
more glass, even less resin.

Why do I say this?  I'm repairing a NDK Romany in my shop right now
that had about 1/8" of gelcoat in the keel behind the skeg box, and the
glass mat didn't even get down that low.  No glass at all in 1' of the
keel.  Just gelcoat.  When the gelcoat cracked/wore thin, the stern
compartment started filling with water.  

In all fairness to the company that Doug "maligned" in his previous
posts, QC is much better, but layup schedules may not be as aggressive.


I think Mariner kayaks and some other, smaller, more "custom"
manufacturers may be closer to meeting the needs of an aggressive
paddler.  Lots of glass, laid where needed, more as requested, and
vacuum-bagged to control resin content and weight.

In contrast, German-manufactured Prijon glass kayaks have beautiful
quality control.  They are just too lightly constructed, in my honest
opinion.  Gelcoat is too thin, and not enough glass.  But for the
glass, and gelcoat, and resin that is involved, it's a perfect ratio,
and they are very well-made.  I've seen a lot of cracking around
bulkheads, I suspect because the hull flexes too much, causing too much
of a stress riser at the bulkhead.  

All kayaks have some amount of a stress riser at the bulkhead, but
stiffer kayaks have much, much less...and bulkheads with curved edges
tend to minimize this effect...kevlar more than glass...but I digress.

>...and the Foster "Legend" 

Being currently manufactured by....Seaward!

Does Nigel Foster spec a different glass layup schedule for his kayaks
produced by Seaward, or are they receiving a "standard" Seaward layup?

Another comment Doug made about gelcoat-to-structural glass integrity. 
If the glass isn't installed at just the right time, there isn't a good
bond.  If done too soon after gelcoat is sprayed in the mold, the
fabric can get sucked into the gelcoat, and you get poor control of
your gelcoat thickness.  If too late after it "gels", you can get a
poor bond or voids between glass and gelcoat.  This can be better
controlled in the vacuum bagging construction process than with a
hand-layup, but VB'ing manufacturers aren't totally immune, either.

Shawn

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************