It would appear Garth (and Kevin) got hold of my email (I being the suspect author). He has a right to be concerned about any perceived misrepresentation, though I would have expected more concern with some of my comments about the group dynamics I touched on -- as those kind of issues are always "touchy," and open wholly to subjective light. As far as the gear was concerned, I made mention of a few observations mainly as an educational service. Things like tent poles "corroding" from the constant saltwater exposure were examples of worthwhile lessons to be shared. Some of the other observations I made may indeed be less educational, and driven in some way by my own thinking process (which can be scary at times). So I hope Garth, the gentleman that he is, will forgive me if there was unintentional misrepresentation. To the matters at hand. Garth said: >On Oct 21 my brother Kevin and I completed a 7 month kayak trip from Victoria to Juneau and back. On Oct 28 a posting on Paddlewise reporting on our return was posted and has subsequently been brought to our attention. Included in this posting was the authors observations regarding the post trip state of our boats and his personal conclusion that Kevin's Seaward Quest did not hold up as well as my Current Designs Expedition. We do not agree with the authors conclusions and feel that Seaward has been unfairly maligned. It was also erroneously stated that Kevin is in the market for a Nordkapp, further implying dissatisfaction with the Quest. <snip> Wow! (Wow on the successful trip, but wow -- and gulp -- that so much got read into a quick post I made). Thanks for making the point that it was my "personal conclusion" regarding the alleged state of Kevin's Quest. That's all it was -- personal observation based on a quick glance and a little lowdown info as interpreted by me from the driver's direct comments. Let's face it, there was a heck of a lot of repair work, apparent and visible anyway, on the hull of the Quest - green or not. I did discount this in part to Kevin's possible and probable status as the younger, Alpha-male, rock-ramming, adventure paddling tenure. I should have noted all that in my post, but the post was getting a little personal so I was trying to be circumspect (if memory serves me); and it sounds like you would discount this observation/conclusion anyway (i.e. the kayaks both held up equally well). I do have a right to my opinions, wrong or right. I do feel the lay-up schedule that Current Designs employ is somewhat better (it was as of last year). I have inside information from an employee who has dealt with both companies, knowledgeable to some degree in these fields, and that was his observations in general, about the two companies. This in no way implies that the damage sustained by Kevin's boat was due to the possible discrepancy above. Here I was in error, as I had no direct evidence that the core material of Kevin's kayak was suspect in any way. Indeed, the wear to the hull was largely surface erosion. While there still is a possibility that the difference in lay-up methodology was an issue, at the very least I should have added that additional comment -- or just dropped the whole thing and restricted my comments to the novel use of polyester "Bond" (again, the main purpose of the post being some of the educational points like using "Bondo"). The bit about Kevin being in the market for a Nordkapp, should be to any regular Paddlewiser, an obvious attempt on my part to laud any praise I can for a boat I personally enjoy. To be truthful, Kevin did say he was in the market for one, and offered no context about NZ that I related to directly. However, this wasn't meant as a dig at the Seaward line or the Quest in particular, anyway. Kevin and I, from the context of what I was thinking, were discussing faster hull speeds, less windage, general British Heavy performance, and the like. I think the juxtaposition in the text of my post where I talk about suspect hull strength, then immediately go on to mention Kevin's desire for a Nordkapp must indeed look like I'm maligning Seaward. I assure you I was not. Just poor editing. If and when I malign Seaward, I'm much more direct. In fact, Kevin was very happy with the Quest and we both knew how restricted he would have been on a long wilderness trip in a narrow Nordkapp (or any low volume North American kayak, for that matter). You guys must think I'm a real ass when you read through the post too literally. I do realize the two of you underwent some limited sponsorship, and so must defend products used. There were other issues with these boats that you had More the one than the other), and this was well know in kayaking circles in and around Victoria. I left much of that out as there was no direct educational value in the other observations -- confirmed to me upon your return to Victoria. It would be highly disingenuous to suggest complete satisfaction in all your gear and kayak brands. I've been paddling too long and seen too much sh*t go down over the years to not have very definite opinions and concerns that I'll freely express, even to the manufacture's face. The differences between the Seawards, the CD's, and the Neckys (for three example) are minimal for the most part. In my opinion, they all are too flimsily built and wear too easily in the off-the-shelf models. Every kayak made needs ongoing refinement and improved strength design and lay-up, even the heavies. Having said that, North American kayak's in general still offer amazing performance and strength for what little weight they usually are. Paddlers can probably unbaby their kayaks a lot more than they realise. But why do you think so many paddlers put up with the weight of kayaks like the Romany? Just strong I guess. (PS Garth, if you had used as much Marintex on your hull as did Kevin on his, you would have bankrupted your trip! ;-) Hope we are still friends.) Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Olsen" <kgo_at_pip.winboot.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 10:28 AM > Status: R > X-Status: > X-Keywords: > Return-Path: <garthirwin_at_telus.net> > Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) > by pip.winboot.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gBDLnnf26615 > for <kgo_at_localhost>; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:49:49 -0500 > Received: from grok.imaginelan.com [208.8.168.171] > by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.7.4) > for kgo_at_localhost (single-drop); Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:49:49 -0500 (EST) > Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (h-64-105-135-5.LSANCA54.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) > by grok.imaginelan.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gBDLKnK27220 > for <paddlewiseadmin_at_imaginelan.com>; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:20:50 -0500 > Received: from priv-edtnes04.telusplanet.net (outbound02.telus.net [199.185.220.221]) > by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gBDM80X15384 > Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:08:00 -0800 > Received: from KimDraeger ([64.180.81.196]) > by priv-edtnes04.telusplanet.net > (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP > id <20021213220757.PDBX27316.priv-edtnes04.telusplanet.net_at_KimDraeger> > for <owner_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:07:57 -0700 > Message-ID: <003601c2a2da$d8e5bc20$c451b440_at_bc.hsia.telus.net> > From: "Garth Irwin" <garthirwin_at_telus.net> > To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > Subject: trip correction > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:07:14 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 > > On Oct 21 my brother Kevin and I completed a 7 month kayak trip from > Victoria to Juneau and back. On Oct 28 a posting on Paddlewise = > reporting on > our return was posted and has subsequently been brought to our = > attention. > Included in this posting was the authors observations regarding the post > trip state of our boats and his personal conclusion that Kevin's Seaward > Quest did not hold up as well as my Current Designs Expedition. We do = > not > agree with the authors conclusions and feel that Seaward has been = > unfairly > maligned. It was also erroneously stated that Kevin is in the market = > for a > Nordkapp, further implying dissatisfaction with the Quest. > > The posting correctly stated that Kevin's Quest showed more obvious > signs of repair than did my Expedition. However this was not due to any > deficiencies in the layup of the Quest as the author implied. As the = > saying > goes, appearances can be misleading - many repairs were also made to the > hull of the Expedition. The difference was that Kevin used Bondo on his > Quest, which dries green and makes repairs obvious whereas I chose to = > use > Marinetek on my Expedition, which dries white and blended in with the = > white > gelcoat. > > We would like to point out that the repairs done to both boats were = > minor; > building up (fibreglassing) of wear points and filling in deep scratches = > in > the gelcoat. Neither boat suffered from any major structural problems > despite the heavy use they received. We were very happy with the > performance and strength of both boats. > > Regarding the comments that Kevin is in a market for a Nordkapp - Kevin > spoke to the author about his goal of circumnavigating NZ's major = > islands. > He did indeed comment that this would most likely be in a Nordkapp. > However, this sentiment was not based on any dissatisfaction with the = > Quest. > At the time Kev made these comments we foresaw having to sell his boat > rather than have it shipped home. Therefore his comments reflected our > financial situation and what is available on the NZ market. He has now > returned to NZ and we are investigating the matter further. If it does > prove to be cost effective (vs purchasing a NZ made boat) then the Quest > will be shipped Down Under as soon as we can afford to do so. Otherwise = > I > will be buying it off him (when I can afford to do so!) > > Cheers, > Garth Irwin > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > > Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: Return-Path: <owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pip.winboot.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gBL5cUv07949 for <kgo_at_localhost>; Sat, 21 Dec 2002 00:38:30 -0500 Received: from grok.imaginelan.com [208.8.168.171] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.7.4) for kgo_at_localhost (single-drop); Sat, 21 Dec 2002 00:38:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (h-64-105-135-5.LSANCA54.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gBL591K19475 for <paddlewiseadmin_at_imaginelan.com>; Sat, 21 Dec 2002 00:09:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) id gBL5ukL00959; Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:56:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:56:46 -0800 From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-Id: <200212210556.gBL5ukL00959_at_cyclone.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise-approval_at_paddlewise.net Subject: BOUNCE paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net: taboo body match "/To:/i" at line 5 taboo body match "/copyright/i" at line 42 Received: from larry.aptalaska.net (larry.aptalaska.net [64.186.96.3]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gBL5ugX00953 Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:56:43 -0800 Received: from revkayak (dialup-83.psg.aptalaska.net [64.186.110.83]) by larry.aptalaska.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gBL67rHH029104 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:08:03 -0900 Message-ID: <000a01c2a8b5$b7852b20$536eba40_at_revkayak> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_aptalaska.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] sings my heart Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 20:56:33 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Wonderful Bob -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Friday, December 20, 2002 7:08 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] sings my heart >dark purple sea >dreams in the light >of magic and moon >water sprite awake >it's time to dance > >give me your hand >i'll take you where >gravity floats >and light sings a song >of uncharted depth > >sings my heart >this silent song >sings my spirit >these waves of joy >give me your wonder >it's time to float > >i recognize this >my waterborne life >this undeserved gift >this dance of tides >bring me ever home >my sea of moonlit dreaming > >-- >Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************Received on Sun Dec 22 2002 - 11:02:32 PST
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