I posted a message a couple of weeks ago 'bout surfing at Jordan River (Vancouver Island). One thing I wanted to mention and throw out for discussion was the issue of spray skirt tightness and leaking. I was pummeled a few times in my Nordkapp Ocean Cockpit and took on a lot of water, even with a top-end Snapdragon skirt. The sewed-on bungee never came loose, but I got a lot more water penetrating than I wanted or liked. I phoned the manufacturer (was also doing research on an entrapment article for SK Mag that I seemed to have inherited) and mentioned the leaking. They indicated that the skirts perform better if the bungee is at maximum factory-set tightness, but unless the customer specifically requests it (or the store ordering the skirt(s) ), they normally pick an average tightness so as not to cause potential problems for entry-level paddlers or those who might find difficulty wet-exiting with too tight a skirt. I wish I had known all this before ordering mine, or at least had the staff at the retail supplier inform me that I had a choice. Snapdragon did offer to make an after-sales adjustment (return skirt to factory for resewing), which was sporting of them. Anyway, just wanted paddlers to know that apparently, some companies do have a way of providing a tighter fit (meaning less water entry with the better seal under the coaming) if the customer wants (providing the customer is always right, which we are, right?). All skirts leak a bit, but one can certainly dial in their preference if given the option. Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I was pummeled a few times in my Nordkapp Ocean Cockpit and took on a lot of > water, even with a top-end Snapdragon skirt. The sewed-on bungee never came > loose, but I got a lot more water penetrating than I wanted or liked. I've had this problem in really big surf as well. I make my own sprayskirts with the typical bunjie configuration which is easy to tighten up. While tighter is better, when the water is really pounding hard on my head it still manages to force it's way in. Nowadays I have significantly reduced the amount of water I take in by wearing a nylon sprayskirt over my neoprene one. This not only keeps my boat a lot drier, but helps spare my neoprene skirt when I am doing a lot of T-rescues in surf classes. If your retrofit doesn't take care of the problem then get a cheap nylon sprayskirt and see if the second layer helps. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
More often than not if a skirt lets in water without being holed, it is in the gap between the skirt and the small of one's back. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi all, A few folks have written to the effect that most skirt leaking is from the top down. I have the same issue as Doug - my snapdragon leaks too much around the cockpit coaming. I didn't believe it at first so experimented a little. If I hold an edge past the coaming w/out getting the top in the water, it comes in at the side pretty significantly, especially if there's any waves to push a little. I finally dragged my boat to a local shop and dragged out all their neo skirts till I found a Mountain Surf one that fits a lot tighter. The deck portion of it looks looser than the Snapdragon, but the bungee does its stuff and I stay pretty dry. I know Snapdragon will customize a skirt but maybe what they should do instead is be a little more forthcoming with their fit philosophy (that is, not wait till you've spent the $$ on a neo skirt expecting to stay dry). jp --- Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> wrote: > More often than not if a skirt lets in water without > being holed, it is > in the gap between the skirt and the small of one's > back. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jennifer said: >>> Hi all, A few folks have written to the effect that most skirt leaking is from the top down. I have the same issue as Doug - my snapdragon leaks too much around the cockpit coaming. I didn't believe it at first so experimented a little. If I hold an edge past the coaming w/out getting the top in the water, it comes in at the side pretty significantly, especially if there's any waves to push a little. <<< My new White's drysuit has a very effective over-tunnel that securely prevents water from entering down the top of the tube. Richard mentioned "the gap between the skirt and the small of one's back." These, and other sources of leaking were not areas particular to my situation -- it was strickley (as you note) water finding its way under the skirt via the coaming juncture. >>>I finally dragged my boat to a local shop and dragged out all their neo skirts till I found a Mountain Surf one that fits a lot tighter. The deck portion of it looks looser than the Snapdragon, but the bungee does its stuff and I stay pretty dry.<<< My previous Phoenix neo skirt from the UK was vastley superior to anything made in North America. It had the latex edge coating on the inside. I don't do much assisted rescue work (solo padder mostly), so I didn't order the latex strenghtening on the outside edge as most paddlers would normally, thereby allowing the option of adding the latex to the inside and achieving a superior coaming-to-skirt seal (Phoenix really tries to disuade this option, as panic wet-exits are made extremely difficult due to the "stickeness" factor). The Phoenix skirt had a double-tunnel with neo vest and suspenders, which wouldn't have worked with my new drysuit -- hence ordering the new Snapdragon. Duane suggested a top-skirt of nylon. I carry one as a spare, so will give that a try, but I still see the issue as one where a superior seal around the coaming (preferably with one skirt) as being advantageous to the rough-water paddler (not just surf -- think Perfect Storm). > >>I know Snapdragon will customize a skirt but maybe what they should do instead is be a little more forthcoming with their fit philosophy (that is, not wait till you've spent the $$ on a neo skirt expecting to stay dry).<<< I believe they told me the retightening was free. Snapdraggon is a great company, as are ORS where I purchased the product. However, I like more options, rather than less when ordering gear specifically from another country. Returns/refits are a huge inconvenience. I should say that for average paddlers, the tension of Snapdragon touring products is where it should be. I imagine, they and other companies, receive a fair bit of dealer/retailer pressure to make products safer for the end-user, not more dangerous -- or at least constructing product with less potential for problems like entrapment. For me, a leaking skirt, however, is a danger. I'm so frustrated by all this, I'm ditching my foot pump for an electrical pump. Perhaps a Rule 500 run on LiIon or NiMH rechargables. Could get expensive to make a top-end, state-of-the-art system, but infinitely cheaper than a CG rescue. My Nordkapp feels even heavier already! Thank Jen, et al, for sharing experiences. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On my 400 mile trek over the rivers and through the woods for a North Carolina Thanksgiving, I tuned in to a techie's Christmas recommended list on NPR, which included a battery-free flashlight from Shakelight. The reviewer gave it a glowing report, so to speak. According to the website, the "NightStar II" powers a LED for up to 15 minutes after shaking a built-in magnet across internal coils for a minute or less. It's supposed to be waterproof and floats. And OK to drop from six feet, or drive a truck across. And the reviewer also offered the "beware of imitations" caveat. But I was shaken at the $39 price tag, and stirred to inquire amongst the paddling wise if anyone has experience with this product. If reasonably as advertised, such a device might make a good checkmark on the lists for my grown but active young'ns. Any advice? Scott Stephens Jax Beach *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/1/2002 2:47:34 PM Central Standard Time, dougl_at_islandnet.com writes: > One thing I wanted to mention and throw out for discussion was the issue of > spray skirt tightness and leaking. I was pummeled a few times in my > Nordkapp Ocean Cockpit and took on a lot of water, even with a top-end > Snapdragon skirt. That's funny, I thought I was the only guy who got pummelled and everyone else went down wave beautifully! I needed a new all neo spray skirt for my Nordkapp Jubilee and decided to experiment with a Bushsport. It is a dry spray skirt and I stay alot drier than my old, factory tuned Snapdragon. I still get water in the boat after repeated rolls, but not like before. Bushsport has a rubber rand along the inside of the skirt that goes nearly all the way around the skirt. It is harder to get on, particularly when dry. I have no entrapment issues with it. I use a snapdragon on my WW boat. This summer I was pinned in a hole and while I waited for the current to grab my paddle and take me out, I couldn't help but notice how the sides of my spray skirt were pulsing open in the hydraulic and my boat taking on water. As I escaped the hole I found rolling difficult with all the water in my boat. Essentially, with the spray skirt fully enclosed my boat was filled to just below the knees. The sewed-on bungee never came loose, but I got a lot more water > penetrating > than I wanted or liked. I phoned the manufacturer (was also doing research > on an entrapment article for SK Mag that I seemed to have inherited) and > mentioned the leaking. They indicated that the skirts perform better if the > bungee is at maximum > factory-set tightness, but unless the customer specifically requests it (or > the store ordering the skirt(s) ), they normally pick an average tightness > so as not to cause potential problems for entry-level paddlers or those who > might find difficulty wet-exiting with too tight a skirt. Snapdragon did > offer to make an after-sales adjustment (return skirt to factory for > resewing), which was > sporting of them. Anyway, just wanted paddlers to know that apparently, > some > companies do have a way of providing a tighter fit (meaning less water > entry > with the better seal under the coaming) if the customer wants (providing > the > customer is always right, which we are, right?). > I don't necessarily view it as a manufacturer's issue. Bushsport is very tuned into what cockpits VCP markets and adjust their skirts accordingly. (I had to specify my make, model and cockpit dimension when ordering) Snapdragon's fit on my German boat is less than precise, but now I know better and will send it back and have an inch of bungie taken out. Given the plethora of WW boats I can see their problem in choosing fit. I now know better to order my skirt. Thanks for the info, Doug. Where is the rain? Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Now here is a paddler blessed with a healthy dose of grace under pressure! Jim et al ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com> This summer I was pinned in a hole and while I waited for the current to grab my paddle and take me out, I couldn't help but notice how the sides of my spray skirt were pulsing open in the hydraulic and my boat taking on water. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/1/2002 2:47:34 PM Central Standard Time, dougl_at_islandnet.com writes: > One thing I wanted to mention and throw out for discussion was the issue of spray skirt tightness and leaking...< Rob replied<snips>: >>That's funny, I thought I was the only guy who got pummelled << One of the instructor-trainers broke a finger that day. Cool. >> I needed a new all neo spray skirt for my Nordkapp Jubilee and decided to experiment with a Bushsport.<< I think it is almost identical to the Phoenix. Great products, eh. >>I use a snapdragon on my WW boat. This summer I was pinned in a hole and while I waited for the current to grab my paddle and take me out, I couldn't help but notice how the sides of my spray skirt were pulsing open in the hydraulic and my boat taking on water. << You were cognitive of your pulsating skirt rhythms while pinned in a hole? Dude, can I go paddling with you sometime? Bet you didn't even elevate your heart beat. Way cool. I dig that attitude. Kind of like the movie I just finished watching - an UK sleeper, "Dog Soldiers." In the movie, a soldier's company of fellow men has almost all been eaten by Werewolves in the Scottish Highlands. One is about to kill and eat him too. He punches a tooth out of the beast, then without blinking an eye, tells the Werewolf that he hopes he gives it the runs just as he is about to be devoured. That's presence of mind. That's going down fighting. Unflinching. Never giving up. Love it. >>Where is the rain?<< In a different form, all falling back east. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My wife and I will be visiting San Diego this week and are bringing our boats along. Robert Mohle's book "Adventure Kayaking" suggests some places in Mission Bay, San Diego Bay and La Jolla Shores. Anyone have any other advice? Anyone want to join us for a day paddle? We should be able to paddle any days from Wednesday (12/11) through Saturday. Thanks, Frank *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jim, try Southwest Kayaks in San Diego. They have a shop right on mission bay, near Sea World if you know where that is. Very good folks, nice equipment for rent, and you can put in right in the back of the shop. Of course if you can swing it, the best places to paddle in the area are actually in Mexico. A 2 hour (being conservative- I've done it much quicker) drive south will put you in some of the best paddling in the world. Baja is great. The SW kayak folks can point you in the right direction if you're interested. Also paddling out of Mission Bay and down along Pt Loma is very scenic too. Another good place is to put in along shelter island in San Diego Bay, then cross over and look at the aircraft carriers (if any are in port) be sure to maintain the proper standoff (I think it's 100 yards or so), but still you get a perspective on the sheer size of them that is hard to get any other way. If you're REALLY adventurous, try going north to Oceanside Harbor, that's where the guy saw the great white shark while paddling about 2 miles off the coast and fishing there (see this months SK magazine for details) :) Hope this helps! R/ Kevin Oh yeah, I forgot, you can also paddle along the bay side of Sea World. Sometimes they have shows going (like the silly Bay Watch Nights they used to do) that you can see from the back. Kind of interesting to watch all the prop changes etc. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Tynan <kayakbound_at_worldnet.att.net> To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Saturday, March 11, 2000 17:41 Subject: [Paddlewise] San Diego paddling >I'll be in San Diego next week at the Town & Country Convention Center [500 >Hotel Circle North]. Tuesday is a free day and I'm hoping to get in a >paddle. I'm not familiar with the area and was hoping a Paddlewiser or two >could point me in the right direction -- kayak shops with rentals, good >paddlin' spots, etc. > >Thanks in advance! > >Jim Tynan >Pike Road AL > > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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