Being somewhat of a tightwad, I have arrived to the point where my old 1980 blue and silver, (with a rusty top and side panel) Chevy truck is getting unreliable and drinking gas like it cost twenty cants per gallon. So I need to find something else to use for kayaking and <A HREF="http://www.geocaching.com/">Geocaching</A>. [ http://www.geocaching.com/ ] I will list my requirements, with the hope for some input on what to buy from this board. Thanks in advance. Requirements; Cheap.... Ease of repair (I try to do my own repairs)....Great gas mileage (above 20 mpg)....Low roof line with the ability to attach roof racks (so I can easily load my kayaks)....Enough room to haul camping and paddling gear for two.... Stick shift and a reasonable amount of power (needed for trips of six or seven hundred miles). I am leaning towards a car instead of a truck, but will not rule out a truck. I haven't bought a car in quite a number of years, (having driven vans, suvs and trucks) so I don't know what is good or bad out there. If you woke up breathing, congratulations. You have another chance, Ronnie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Harley1941_at_aol.com wrote: > I need to find something else to use for kayaking and geocaching.com > Requirements; Cheap.... Ease of repair (I try to do my own > repairs)....Great gas mileage (above 20 mpg)....Low roof line with the > ability to attach roof racks (so I can easily load my kayaks)....Enough room > to haul camping and paddling gear for two.... Stick shift and a reasonable > amount of power (needed for trips of six or seven hundred miles). Volvo station wagon. Perhaps a 740 series with turbo and 5-speed. -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA 30602-5593 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I second the vote for a Volvo wagon but offer my example (1991 240) to your requirements: > Cheap.... Ease of repair (I try to do my own the 240 is quite straightforward, well laid out and stuff easily accessible in the engine compartment > Great gas mileage (above 20 mpg) I get 30 MPG and have, reliably, for 12 years now. > Low roof line with the ability to attach roof racks > (so I can easily load my kayaks) This is my #1 love of this car - I can reach the roof!! I have factory racks that, with foamies, will accommodate 2 SKs side-by-side (unlike Subaru's factory rack). I also have some Thule gutter towers and 78" bars that I can mount over the whole works and stack on boats to my heart's content. I can pick up any of my boats and lift them onto the rear bar unassisted. (at 5'7" and not exactly a gym rat) > Enough room to haul camping and paddling gear for > two.... Heck, I've even camped in the back of the car ( remarkably comfortable with the back seat flat down and a thermarest). > Stick shift and a reasonable amount of power (needed > for trips of six or seven hundred miles). OK, the 240 is a little short on power but it has gotten me over the river, through the snow and up the hills for 189,000 miles so far with no sign of letting up yet!!! I simply keep the revs up (like, don't even try to stay in 5th gear on a serious hill). > Steve Cramer voted for a "Volvo station wagon. > Perhaps a 740 series with turbo and 5-speed." I have to tell you that, in addition to the 1991 240 I have a 2001 Volvo V70 T5 5-speed (the front-drive, high pressure turbo, 247 HP 'station rocket'). I have Thule bars mounted on my euro rails and all the good things about loading kayaks, etc are still true (and I get an amazing 25 MPG). But even after having it for 2 years I am unable to part with my 240. (Much to the dismay of my shuttle participants!) I saw a shot of a 240 in Canoe & Kayak a few year ago under the heading of "classic shuttle vehicle". Yup, 5 boats on top and a bunch of (WW) boats stuck in the wagon end. Jennifer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jennifer Pivovar wrote: > I second the vote for a Volvo wagon but offer my > example (1991 240) to your requirements: > Another vote for the '91 240. Ours is pushing 234k and is still running strong. Drove home from Georgia this fall with 4 sea kayaks, 1 surf boat, and 1 white water boat... http://home.swbell.net/qajaq/boat_hauler.jpg - Mark Austin, tx *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Harley1941_at_aol.com wrote: >>>>> I need to find something else to use for kayaking and geocaching.com Requirements; Cheap.... Ease of repair (I try to do my own repairs)....Great gas mileage (above 20 mpg)....Low roof line with the ability to attach roof racks (so I can easily load my kayaks)....Enough room to haul camping and paddling gear for two.... Stick shift and a reasonable amount of power (needed for trips of six or seven hundred miles).<<<<<< > cramersec_at_charter.net wrote: > Volvo station wagon. Perhaps a 740 series with turbo and 5-speed. > Six months ago we shopped for a wagon/wagon-type vehicle, and ended up finding a lo-mileage 95 Camry wagon (not too many around as last production year was 96). Mileage up to 26 hwy with 3.0 V6/Auto, but the factory roof racks are crap and I will be pulling out the headliner to bolt on 3 pr of rack mounting brackets so we can carry both short and long boats and also do some serious hauling (aside: more recent factory racks have better load-carrying capabilities). I've got my fingers crossed that the Toy won't need many repairs ;-) We also considered Subaru, but never seriously looked at Volvos. The reviews are good, but the cars a bit pricy. Play Hard, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Requirements; Cheap.... Ease of repair (I try to do my own > repairs)....Great gas mileage (above 20 mpg)....Low roof line with the > ability to attach roof racks (so I can easily load my kayaks)....Enough room > to haul camping and paddling gear for two.... Stick shift and a reasonable > amount of power (needed for trips of six or seven hundred miles). I worked as an auto mechanic in the past before and during collage, plus I have worked as an automotive engineer after collage. I have owned/still own: Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Mazdas, Volvos, Volkswagens, Porches, Mercedes, Dodge, Chevys, Isuzu (pick-up) and I have close family members that have owned Subarus and others like these. It is both my personal and professional opinion from experience that the finest, most reliable and economical cars ever built are Honda, Toyota, and Mazda [the real Japanese built Mazdas, not the fake ones built in the US by Ford]. And all are readily available in economical and reliable 5-speed manual trans. It is quite unfortunate but I have been very disappointed with all of the US built cars and trucks that I have owned and worked on. Most of the Japanese cars are quite good, and the European cars fall somewhere in the middle, from pretty good, to pretty bad. For a great all around get away vehicle suitable for hauling kayaks I really like the Honda Civic 4WD wagon, built I think only from 1989 to about 1993 (soon after Honda came out with their "mini" SUV, the CRV, also a great vehicle, but more expensive). The Civic wagons are incredibly reliable and get something like 35 MPG, and are fun to drive, plus has the 4WD for getting in and out of troubled areas. It is not very attractive, it is a bit boxy looking (reminds me of a phone booth), but is fairly roomy for a vehicle this size. I think it is more economical and reliable than a Subaru. Another alternative is a short lived model Totoya Corolla 4WD wagon, also made between about 1989 and about 1992. It has a bit more room and power, with only a slight drop in MPG. Both the non-4WD version of this wagon, and the bigger Camary wagons are also good choices if the 4WD feature is not important to you. There is also a smaller and older 4WD Toyota wagon, the Tercel 4WD wagon (I currently own one). Made from 1983 to about 1988, it is less expensive, but being older all of the available ones will have very high mileage. It gets about 30 mpg and is somewhat underpowered at only 62 hp and still used a carburated engine (which is real balky on cold mornings). All the other newer models I suggested use the more powerful, reliable, and more economical fuel injection, this alone is why I would not recommend this model over any of the others. Though I did pay only about $200 each for the two I have owned, and their "very" used condition had me doing a number of repairs on them. Parts and service for both the Hondas and Toyotas are readily available almost anywhere in the world, and both are dependable and economical. These combinations are tough to beat, since they are also plentiful, they are reasonable priced on the used car market. Mazda made a great sporty car in 4WD for a few years, the Protege 1990, but unfortunately never available as a wagon. And parts and service are slightly less available than Toyota and Honda. I owned and loved several older Volvos 1958-70 model years, I did all my own work on them. I can not recommend the newer ones, though reasonably reliable and roomy, they are not as economical to own as the Hondas and Toyotas, and depending where you live, parts and service could be hard to get. But not a bad car overall, and more roomy. When my current 1984 Tercel 4WD wagon wears out (it has "only" 180k miles on it), I will be keeping my eyes open for a '90-'92 Honda 4WD Civic Wagon. There are also a ton of aftermarket performance parts for the Honda to easily tweak the 103 hp engine up to about 140 hp (or higher!). If I can not get a good deal, I will be looking for a '90-'92 Toyota Corolla 4WD wagon. Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree. I used to SELL cars, and I recall quite well that Volvo made its reputation for reliability on its "122 S" models, which they stopped making in 1967? - 1968? -- and rode public gullibility on the memory of that line, for years. In my opinion NO European cars come CLOSE in reliability to the best of the Japanese cars [specifically, the Toyota Camry and, in second place, the Hondas -- including Acuras], period, and the American cars are sadly STILL 'way behind the best of the European cars. (In engineering as well, but that's still another story.) [Perhaps an interesting side point: The REASON Ford has gotten so much better than it WAS, is that Ford bought a large interest in Mazda and then brought Mazda production engineers to Dearborn to teach Ford how to build a car!] I wish it weren't so, but there it is. Being an American, I choose to buy American wherever possible BUT I am NOT willing to "shoot myself in the foot" in the case of something as important as a car, where reliability is everything. By the way, there were 4WD Camrys for a number of years, as well. [Also the Mazdas from Flat Rock, MI, use NO galvanized sheet metal (at least, that was the case the last time I checked; and it's not easy finding this out either from Ford or from Mazda!); my current car, an Acura Integra, uses sheet metal galvanized on both sides. When I finally did get an answer on this from Mazda / Ford, they claimed they don't use it because it's hard to get paint to adhere to it properly. That's funny, Honda /Acura has no such problem; and in any case that doesn't explain why they don't at least use ONE-sided galvanized! -- Starting off in the battle against body-rust thus handicapped, is not IMHO a great idea....] It is getting harder and harder to get a gear-box even in the better Japanese cars, however; it's so worthwhile that if you are buying a new car I would urge you to ORDER one that way if you have to, and also to learn to drive a stick shift if you don't "know how to" (it takes all of about ten minutes to learn!). - Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Chopelas" <pac_at_premier1.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Transportation Input Needed > I worked as an auto mechanic in the past before and during collage, plus I have worked as an automotive engineer after collage. I have owned/still own: Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Mazdas, Volvos, Volkswagens, Porches, Mercedes, Dodge, Chevys, Isuzu (pick-up) and I have close family members that have owned Subarus and others like these. It is both my personal and professional opinion from experience that the finest, most reliable and economical cars ever built are Honda, Toyota, and Mazda [the real Japanese built Mazdas, not the fake ones built in the US by Ford]. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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