Here is a link to a story about "affordable" carbon fiber nano tubes 10X stronger than regular carbon fiber. So when will we see composite kayaks made of this stuff? Could you make a 10 pound kayak by using less material? Jim et al http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5837246%255E13762,00.html [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of NEWS.com.au Boffins create $3m tennis racquet (January 14, 2003).url] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jim wrote >Here is a link to a story about "affordable" carbon >fiber nano tubes 10X stronger than regular carbon fiber. >So when will we see composite kayaks made of this stuff? >Could you make a 10 pound kayak by using less material? G'Day, Well nanotechnology was my game for 14 years and I had the good fortune to work with ANU. The strength of composite fiber resin materials doesn't just reside in the fiber but in the nature of the fiber resin interface (You probably know the bundle of sticks analogy). I didn't work with the ANU group you referenced but from general knowledge of the area will guestimate a 20lb sea kayak as strong as my Pittarak in 5 years time. (Of course some foldables are almost that weight now!!) Suspect most of the delay will be in getting production quality QC systems in place. For an equivalent strength 10lb kayak someone will have to work on a lightweight strong resin. (but don't go making investments on my say so:~) All the best, PeterO (Whos in India next week so forgive slow replies) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi guys, This is my area a bit, (composites, not nanotubes) and I do not agree entirely with Peter. The problem is not the strength of the material, the problem is if you design for strength or for stiffness Using the same techniques (and supposing the matrix-fibre interface is strong enough) you could make the kayak lighter only by using a thinner layer of the stronger material. On a macroscopic scale the kayak then is just as strong, but the thinner skin is much more flexible than the old (thicker and heavier) skin. So you end up with a boat that is much more flexible. Also on a macroscopic scale the kayak is less stiff, and because of the flexible skins probably rather prone to buckling. Of course you can add stiffeners to the skin, but they add weight again. My view is that for building a much lighter kayak you should leave the technology in which the skin is load bearing. It exists: look at the first light folding kayak. (www.firstlightkayaks.com). They are building a carbon fibre frame and using a light but abrasion resistant PU skin, and end up with a kayak that weighs 22 pound at 4.8 m length. No expedition boat, but it should be pretty tough if you see the surf pictures at treir site. The ultimate light kayak would be a non folding skin on frame boat using a nanotube based frame and some extremely light space age skin. The other question is why you would want one. Easier handling is nice, but on the water a pound less on your tummy is much more effective, and a lot cheaper, than a pound less on your boat..... Greetings, Merijn *********************************** Merijn Wijnen merijnwijnen_at_fastmail.fm *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Merijn wrote: - >you could make the kayak lighter only by using >a thinner layer of the stronger material. >On a macroscopic scale the kayak then is just as >strong, but the thinner skin is much more flexible G'Day Merijn and Paddlewise, Could you also introduce stiffness by using tensioning cords made of carbon fiber built into the skin or materal? Also wouldn't lighter resin and/or fillers as part of the composite allow normal thickness but lighter construction material? I know such material isn't present at the moment, but carbon nanotubes are not the only structure that nanotechnology can produce - one might consider the possibility of load bearing nanospheres as fillers for resin one day. And a ten pound kayak would surely save petrol on those long trips. Plus I'm going to need one in twenty years time. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> > Could you also introduce stiffness by using tensioning cords made of > carbon fiber built into the skin or materal? Increasing tension in the skin would actually reduce the stiffness in theory. Ultimately, you have to have something in compression and that's the part that ends up relatively bulky. > Also wouldn't lighter resin > and/or fillers as part of the composite allow normal thickness but lighter > construction material? If it could handle the shear stresses, yes. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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