[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (i.e. headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] I can't remember the name of it but there is a folding kayak rental place in the Seattle area that sells used rentals. I was satisfied with how they treated me when I bought my Feathercraft. -----Original Message----- From: Evan Dallas I'm considering buying a used folding single kayak for a longer trip this summer flying into Alaska, then selling it afterwards (unless I end up liking it so well, I just add it to the collection!). Does anyone have any suggestions where I should look to find one and what a reasonable price would be, assuming it's in decent shape. Can you generally take it on an airline as regular baggage or do the airlines charge extra? Any info would be much appreciated. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Evan Dallas wrote: >> I'm considering buying a used folding single kayak for a longer trip this summer flying into Alaska, then selling it afterwards (unless I end up liking it so well, I just add it to the collection!). Does anyone have any suggestions where I should look to find one and what a reasonable price would be, assuming it's in decent shape. Can you generally take it on an airline as regular baggage or do the airlines charge extra? Any info would be much appreciated. >> Evan, for an alternative to more expensive Kleppers and Feathercraft, check out the Folbot Web Board ( http://www.folbot.com/yak.htm ), where there is always some traffic in used Folbots. Prices there are typically more realistic than eBay, where things get bid up some. Folbots are cheaper than Klepper and Feathercraft, and plenty durable. I've done several two-week excursions on the salt (Charlottes, W Coast of Vancouver Island) in my Greenland II double. I would not take it through the surf, but it handles rough seas quite well, and the hull is bombproof. Feathercraft make the highest quality folder on the market, in my opinion, and at a pretty price, too. The Folbots are __not__ as strong as Feathercraft, but generally much easier to assemble and take down. The Web Board will also have a lot of stuff on practical packing of folders for airline travel -- which is much dicier these days than it was pre-9/11. One recent poster described having his __entire__ kit disassembled and then he had to re-pack hurriedly to make a connection, part of the TSA security arrangements. Not typical, but they picked him for a "random" check. I have no affiliation with Folbot, just a satisfied customer. Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/27/2003 7:42:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, gpewitt_at_execpc.com writes: > ... I don't know of "another folder" that I would be more comfortable in or > feel safer in than my Kodiak. ... Which of the potential "other folders" have you paddled extensively? The Kodiak is an excellent boat, as you say, and it would be interesting to which direct "boat-to-boat" comparisons your above statement applies! Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_Atlatl-Kayaks.com / Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.Atlatl-Kayaks.com / www.PouchBoats.com phone: +1-203-324-0901 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/27/2003 4:42:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, gpewitt_at_execpc.com writes: > I have had five Folbots and currently have three. I > traveled all over England and fairly extensively in the states and have > never found the Folbots to be lacking in any way. And I can buy two of > them new for the price of a used Feathercraft. Mind you I'm not knocking > Feathercraft or Klepper. It's just that I don't think they are worth two > or three times as much money. > It all depends on how you intend to use them and in what conditions. I prefer my Folbot Aleut over my Feathercraft K-1 and K-Light for some uses. I prefer my K-1 over the Aleut and K-Light for other uses and finally I prefer my K-Light over the K-1 and Aleut at other times. It's like picking the right tool for the job. Tony *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> prefer my K-1 over the Aleut and K-Light for other uses and finally I prefer > my K-Light over the K-1 and Aleut at other times. It's like picking the > right tool for the job. > > Tony K-Light is a nice boat. Light, fast and very compact. When I recently asked local Feathercraft dealer, why did they discontinue this model when it was that popular, his ansewr was that 15ft Kahuna (35 lbs or 16 kg) would be even more popular. Unfortunately, they are rarely sold used, and used "expedition" version (with 2 hatches) is even more rare. Back to the topic, - both Aleut and K-light can hardly be considered as expedition boats. Eventually savings (on relatively low price of these two) would be eliminated by expensive light-weight and low-volume gear unless you already got such. And everyday loading of such boat would become a real ordeal in a multiday expedition. I wouldn't recommend practicing this for those without enough patience :-). Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<excess text removed by admin> Niilus, right you are. A garage full of kayaks, one for each use, is the best way to go- if you can afford it. I have three: a Folbot Super for fishing and sailing, a Folbot sporty for all around paddling and some sailing, and a Folbot Kodiak for journeys longer than a day trip. I don't believe I'd be any happier with Kleppers or Feathercrafts (or any less happy) but I would be a -lot- poorer. The money I saved will pay for a lot of trips and gear. And as I said my Folbots have never let me down. 73 Gary At 10:33 AM 2/27/03 -0500, Niilus_at_aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/27/2003 4:42:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, >gpewitt_at_execpc.com writes: > > > > > I have had five Folbots and currently have three. I > > traveled all over England and fairly extensively in the states and have > > never found the Folbots to be lacking in any way. And I can buy two of > > them new for the price of a used Feathercraft. Mind you I'm not knocking > > Feathercraft or Klepper. It's just that I don't think they are worth two > > or three times as much money. > >It all depends on how you intend to use them and in what conditions. I >prefer my Folbot Aleut over my Feathercraft K-1 and K-Light for some uses. I >prefer my K-1 over the Aleut and K-Light for other uses and finally I prefer >my K-Light over the K-1 and Aleut at other times. It's like picking the >right tool for the job. > >Tony *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/27/2003 6:42:02 AM Central Standard Time, gpewitt_at_execpc.com writes: > I traveled all over England and fairly extensively in the states and have > never found the Folbots to be lacking in any way. And I can buy two of > them new for the price of a used Feathercraft. Mind you I'm not knocking > Feathercraft or Klepper. It's just that I don't think they are worth two > or three times as much money. I do. I respect your opinion about the quality of the Folbot product and their excellent service. I don't knock peoples choice of boats, either, It's yours, have fun, that's why we do it. Just stick to the kind of water it was designed for. I will take issue with the perception you, however inadvertently, created that a Feathercraft or a Klepper is not worth 2 to 3 times as much money. I don't own a Klepper so I won't address their issues other than to say that their tremendous quality and robustness has lead intrepid paddlers across the Atlantic twice and the Gulf of Carpenteria once. It is a tough boat that has spent the better part of a century earning its well deserved reputation. As a Feathercraft Khats owner I would say that anyone who wants to pay the 2-3 times of what a Folbot is worth will have the following advantages: Performance design that is as speedy as many performance hardshells (I also own a Nordkapp, which in my opinion is faster, but not by much). A very rugged frame that surfs well and handles that kind of use. Welded seam construction for zero water leakage into the vessel. single backpack to contain all boat and paddling related equipment. 6" less beam to push through the water, 22" vs 28" A few more feet of water line for actual speed, 18' vs 15' A composite cockpit rim that accepts real spray decks, like the provided neoprene one. Bone dry hatches and hatch covers. A painter. One of the most comfortable kayak seats I've tried. Internal skin reinforcement at wear points. ( Folbot's expedition model pads the stringers, but doesn't reinforce the hull). Same 300 pound payload as the Kodiak. A sea sock. 2 very high quality floatation bags. A very impressive customer service team. In my opinion, it would be more fair to compare the Feathercraft Kahuna at 2200 dollars US vs the Kodiak, which similarly equipped sells for just under 1800. I won't comment on the Kahuna's performance characteristics because I've only put one together but not paddled it. It took 20 minutes the first time, but once you know how to put a Feathercraft together it's quite similar for all of them. The Kahuna is still manufactured with impressive materials and construction, doesn't leak, etc, yet weighs 35 pounds versus 55 for the Kodiak. Is it worth 400 dollars? To me, yes. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> it would be more fair to compare the Feathercraft Kahuna at > 2200 dollars US vs the Kodiak, which similarly equipped sells for just under > 1800. Folbot has winter sales lasting pretty long (2 months?), and right now Kodiak in "expedition" version costs 1500. I don't know if it's still a winter sale, but anyway, such price isn't unusual. Kahuna is 2300 in basic version, sometimes it's possible to get it in Exp version for the same price, but I didn't see Kahuna for 2200 (even basic one). F-craft has raised prices once or twice in last 3 years. In Canada, after exchange USD/CDN, may be its 2200 - but don't forget 14-15% of canadian compound tax for residents. These 2 boats are too different. Kodiak is much wider and stable, more suitable for fishing, paddling in rough seas without much skills, but there is a price to pay - slower speed, less water-tight spraydeck. Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: >> In my opinion, it would be more fair to compare the Feathercraft Kahuna at 2200 dollars US vs the Kodiak, which similarly equipped sells for just under 1800. I won't comment on the Kahuna's performance characteristics because I've only put one together but not paddled it. It took 20 minutes the first time, but once you know how to put a Feathercraft together it's quite similar for all of them. The Kahuna is still manufactured with impressive materials and construction, doesn't leak, etc, yet weighs 35 pounds versus 55 for the Kodiak. Is it worth 400 dollars? To me, yes. >> I agree with Rob that the Kahuna and the Kodiak are the boats to use when comparing Folbot and Feathercraft. I have paddled both, and own a Kodiak. The Kahuna is a little faster, but holds less. The 300 lb payload rating for the Kahuna is pretty accurate, while I bet the Kodiak would handle 400 easily, contrary to Folbot's conservative 300 lb figure. Yet, I think they are different boats. The Kahuna is much more watertight, with a traditional cockpit that accepts a "normal" sprayskirt. My Kodiak is an "open cockpit" boat which comes with a (cheesy, in my opinion) coated nylon spraydeck that pools water and leaks into my lap. In addition, the Kodiak leaks like crazy at the back of the cockpit. Not a good choice for heavy seas. I don't think Folbot markets the Kodiak as a full-on ocean cruiser -- because it is not suited for that use. I would be nervous as hell taking it outside a surf zone, mainly because I would expect to get pasted coming through surf. I believe the sturdier construction of the Kahuna is a better choice if you need a boat than can __better__ handle surf landings and launches. Rather, Folbot pitches the Kodiak as a good one for tamer waters -- the kind of thing inland kayakers and those in protected waters might use. Think summer days on the lake, laid-back fishing trips in the warm summer sun, paddling in the Everglades, and the like, with some wind waves as spice -- no surf! I have not taken my Kodiak on the salt, but I have taken my Greenland II (Folbot's double) on the salt, and it has handled some pretty big water in the Charlottes and on the west coast of Vancouver Island. It is not as strong as Feathercraft's welded aluminum construction, and with the stock spraydeck, not well-suited for heavy seas. I have launched and landed it on surge beaches, and it works well there. It would be a disaster in a true surf break. I think dumping surf would kill it. (A couple of us made modified spraydecks. See Mike Edelman's site for details: http://foldingkayaks.org/kayakmods.html#folbot_spraydeck The spraydecks we made would __not__ solve the problem of weaker construction, but do solve any leakage problems, and make for quick entry/exit -- such as is needed on surge beaches.) I do not have the price figures for the Feathercraft double, but I bet it is at least twice the cost of the Greenland II. And, it would be worth it for folks who want a full-on ocean cruiser. The extra dollars would not be worth it for someone intending tamer uses for his/her double. Different boats, different uses. No affiliation with either manufacturer. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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