Pretty quiet out there. Is everybody out kayaking or did all the important questions finally get answered? I'd like to know if there's any big kayakers out there who have a really good roll. I'm 46, 6' 265lbs and I'm wondering if it's really feasable to think I'm ever really going to be able to muscle my way upright. While I think I do have a lot of upper body strength, I know I don't have much flexiblity for leaning back to lower my CG. I'm new at this and haven't had a class yet and I'm sure there's a lot of technique involved, but I'd like to hear from some 300lb guy that he rolls like there's no tomorrow, so I'll know its really posible. Today I practiced rolls and my paddle float reentry and while I can do it in the harbor, I hate to think of depending on only that in any kind of swells. I did do a wet reentry and roll up using the paddle float which seems to be a good way to get up except it lets a lot of water into the boat. Mark Sanders *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, I'm 6'8", 250 lbs. No roll...yet. Trying to work on one - but quite frankly, for most of my paddling I've made sure that I have 2 or 3 solo recoveries and 2 or 3 assisted recoveries down cold...now I'm working on my roll. In terms of trying to get a roll, I'd recommend getting or watching The Kayak Roll video done by Kent Ford. I have no connections with the video in any way. The video teaches a sweep roll that takes almost all force off your arms and shoulders, doesn't require bend-o-man flexibility, and doesn't require you to end up laying on the back deck. In working in the pool I'm getting close to this one - but without an instructor, teaching yourself a roll is fairly difficult. It breaks it down into positions and motions - very familiar to me as a golfer and former golf instructor. The video does a good job (IMHO) of capturing the roll motions and helping you visualize what's happening. The other roll instructions I've looked at place me in positions where my shoulders hurt and I'm attempting to fold this not-so-flexible carcass of mine into semi-complex contortions. Just an opinion, Keith *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 08:39:24AM -0600, Keith Wrage wrote: > In terms of trying to get a roll, I'd recommend getting or watching The > Kayak Roll video done by Kent Ford. Kent's video is excellent. However, I always teach people the C-to-C roll, because I'm teaching river paddlers, and the C-to-C roll position does a better job of protecting important body parts -- like their face. It also (if successful) leaves the paddler set up ready to take their next stroke instead of lying back on the stern deck. And it diminishes the strain on the lower back. In fact, one of the drills I practice is to get moving forward at about 3/4 speed, then fall over, set up and roll (going all the way around) and come up taking the next stroke. If done correctly, it should take less than 2 seconds and leave me going in exactly the same direction as I started, with most of the speed I was carrying. This isn't hard to do in a pool, but doing it in whitewater is quite difficult, since the boat begins to twist around as soon as it's upside-down. > I'm wondering if it's really feasable to think I'm ever really going to be > able to muscle my way upright. I can answer that: you can't, and you won't. Oh, perhaps under ideal conditions you *might* muscle your way upright once or twice, but this will be a happy accident and no more. Your chances of doing this under real-world conditions when it counts are nil. That's because the roll is not about muscling your way upright: it's about technique and timing. The ideal roll is almost effortless and relies nearly entirely on hipsnap: the paddle's just there because, well, you'll need it once you're upright. And while this might seem counter-intuitive, please believe me: I've watched plenty of people with far more than my strength try to use it to roll, and they've all failed. (Which is why, when teaching such people, I now confiscate their paddle and only return it when they can roll without it. ;-) ) Here's a drill for you: go to the pool and leave your paddle high and dry. Get someone to stand next to you with their hands cupped together. Bring both of yours together on top of theirs. Fall over (toward them). Try to hipsnap your way back up while exerting minimal downward pressure on their hands, Once you can get back up, tell them to decrease the amount of force they will allow you to exert by sagging, i.e. if you push too hard, they'll just let you push their hands down instead of resisting. By going gradually from relying on them to barely relying on them at all, you'll develop the simultaneous hipsnap/head drop movement that you need to roll. Here's another one, to help you develop flexibility. Lie down on the floor, flat on your back. Do a sit-up. Now twist your torso around -- while trying to leave your heels on the floor -- so that you can face the other way and do sort-of-a-pushup. (I'm not explaining this well...) The idea is to get as close to you can to a position that twists your torso 180 degrees. Now sit up and reverse. Do this s-l-o-w-l-y and STOP if you feel something bad happening in your shoulders or anywhere else. (The purpose is this is to stretch, not to dislocate. ;-) ) ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Mark Sanders" <sandmarks_at_attbi.com> > Pretty quiet out there. Is everybody out kayaking or did all the important > questions finally get answered? I'd like to know if there's any big kayakers > out there who have a really good roll. I'm 46, 6' 265lbs and I'm wondering > if it's really feasable to think I'm ever really going to be able to muscle > my way upright. I can't comment on the issue of size, except to say that I know a few big guys who can roll. However, don't assume that you need to muscle your way through it. Rolling is almost effortless if done properly - it's all technique, not strength. Last spring, in a rolling session at the East Coast Canoe and Kayak Festival, there were some good examples of how muscle works against you. At the end of the session, we were challenged to roll with someone lying on our back deck. I had an easy time. One guy who used strength to roll couldn't do it - his strength was only good for one roll under ideal conditions, since that's what he learned. My technique adapts to the current conditions. > While I think I do have a lot of upper body strength, I know > I don't have much flexiblity for leaning back to lower my CG. There are rolls that do not require a layback. One modification to the standard sweep roll works for a recovery in a seated position. You start the sweep as per a regular roll but as you reach 90 degrees or so, you flip from a high-brace sweep to a low-brace forward sweep. As well. the C-C is a roll that doesn't use a layback. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<<I'm wondering if it's really feasable to think I'm ever really going to be able to muscle my way upright. >> You are right, you won't. That isn't how you roll. It is timing. The paddle is there to give you that little extra you need. Your roll is in your hips, as you put the boat back under you. If you can fit in your boat and it is a boat that is rollable for a beginner you can learn to roll. Some boats are just too hard for a beginner to learn in. A good example was last week at the pool a fellow who had a roll in a white water boat many years ago brought a Carolina to the pool. That is not a boat to learn to roll in. It is flat on the bottom and 25" wide so it is a bit like trying to roll a shoebox. Even with the paddlefloat he ended up upside down when he didn't want to be. <<I'm new at this and haven't had a class yet and I'm sure there's a lot of technique involved, but I'd like to hear from some 300lb guy that he rolls like there's no tomorrow, so I'll know its really posible.>> I'm a woman, I'm quite large, and I don't have a bomb-proof roll on both sides but I have tested out the roll out in real water and felt very comfortable with it. It has saved me quite a number of wet exits. I have an off-side roll that is coming along well. It will just take time for my body to know what to do every time for it to be really good on both sides. If you work at it you should be able to roll. I'd take a class or get someone who can teach you to give you a hand. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: > I'd like to know if there's any big kayakers > out there who have a really good roll. Yes, Mark, I know some really big guys who are rolling fools. But when I think of big sea kayakers, I can't help but think of Wayne Horodowich, a well known instructor in Santa Barbara, CA. He can do everything the little guys can do and make it look easy. He attended some classes I was in a couple of years ago and I loved to stand next to him while we were off the water - I almost felt small (and I definitely qualify for the big-guy boater list). Seeing him easily scramble back into his boat made me realize that we have no excuse just because our kayak might be the high volume model. :-) Frank *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:33 PDT