Lew wrote: >The boats that are being discussed belong to my wife and I. Do I understand correctly: The Pintails were brought from 7500 ft elevation to sea level with the VCP hatch covers on, and placed in the water at sea level, resulting in damage to the hull and deck? What was the damage? Obviously sufficient to require the distributor to replace the boats! The maker of my boat supplied small valves from garden watering systems, for installation at the top of each bulkhead. They can be opened for travel, closed for paddling. I have not installed them, thinking that the bulging and dipping of the VCP hatch lids would never be enough to cause structural damage to the hull and deck. This clearly needs a rethink. Cheers, PT. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Peter Treby" <ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au> > I have not installed them, thinking that the bulging > and dipping of the VCP hatch lids would never be enough to cause structural > damage to the hull and deck. This clearly needs a rethink. I wouldn't worry so much about major structural failure unless you subject your kayak to extremes (like coming down from a mountain and going thru significant temperature changes at the same time). However, I put teensy holes in the bulkheads of my Ellesmere to prevent pressure buildup. My reason is that I don't want to pop a hatch if it overheats (the cover's on a leash, but that's not enough - I want a closed hatch). I also don't want to stress the hatch cover unnecessarily (pressure or suction). The holes were made with the smallest drill in my kit (around a mm or so) and are located at the centre of each bulkhead. In extensive rolling practice, there is rarely any water in the forward compartment as a result of the hole. The rear gets a spoonful or so. I've considered covering the holes with fabric so that it still breathes easily but leaks more slowly. It's never been an issue, though, and I'll probably never get around to that. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Just checking some advertised weights for British "Heavies": Pintail, 50 lbs, or 22.7 kg. Romany Explorer 56 lbs, or 25.4 kg. Compared with: CD Gulfstream, glass 51 lbs, 23.1 kg CD Caribou S, glass, 50 lbs 22.7 kg QCC Q600x, glass, 50 lbs, 22.7 kg Seaward Endeavour, 55 lbs, 24.9 kg Dagger Cortez, glass, 60 lbs, 27.2 kg and plastic boats: Prijon Seayak, 58 lbs, 26 kg. Perception Carolina 64 lbs, 29 kg (w/o rudder) Comparisons and generalizations are odious, so I won't go on, but the British boats don't appear to be generally heavier, if at all. Cheers, PT. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter Treby wrote: >>>>>>>>Just checking some advertised weights for British "Heavies": Pintail, 50 lbs, or 22.7 kg. Romany Explorer 56 lbs, or 25.4 kg. Compared with: CD Gulfstream, glass 51 lbs, 23.1 kg [55.3] CD Caribou S, glass, 50 lbs 22.7 kg QCC Q600x, glass, 50 lbs, 22.7 kg Seaward Endeavour, 55 lbs, 24.9 kg [57.5] Dagger Cortez, glass, 60 lbs, 27.2 kg and plastic boats: Prijon Seayak, 58 lbs, 26 kg. [67] Perception Carolina 64 lbs, 29 kg (w/o rudder) Comparisons and generalizations are odious, so I won't go on, but the British boats don't appear to be generally heavier, if at all.<<<<<<<<< I wouldn't pay too much attention to advertised weights. I've weighed kayaks that were 15 pounds more than advertised and heard of one that was advertised at 56 pounds actually weighing in at 76. In the case I heard about, I had told a customer that the kayak model he was considering would weigh about 56 pounds with the construction and features and seat he wanted. He responded with (or something very like): "The (a plastic kayak) I have now weighs 56 pounds and I can hardly lift it." I asked if he had actually weighed his kayak or that was the advertised weigh. He said: "advertised". I asked him to weigh himself on his bathroom scale when he got home and then pick up the kayak and subtract his weight from the scales reading. He called later and said "76 pounds". Some companies are pretty good about getting the advertised weight close to what the reality will be but others play very fast and loose with this dimension. Sea Kayaker actually weighs the kayaks (but be sure to check if the tested kayak sent to them wasn't Kevlar or Graphite--as it often is) before believing that that is what the weight of standard glass lay-up of the kayak you buy will be. The Sea Kayaker weights for the kayaks on your above list that they weighed are in the brackets [ ] I added to the advertised weights listed above. I wish I had actual weights for all the kayaks I've kept other dimensions for but that would be too hard to test and I can't trust the listed advertised weights so I don't bother keeping track of that dimension (which is also subject to variation for many reasons-see our websites "FAQ's"). You can find the weights of most of the kayaks Sea Kayaker weighed during testing them by opening the (.XLS) drag spreadsheet (MS Excel) from the "downloads" section of our website and subtracting 250 pounds from the "Disp.lb." (weight) column (for the kayaks in the archived data section of the spreadsheet). I'm sorry I don't have a way of quickly knowing which were Kevlar or graphite models (careful reading of the original article usually indicates the lay-up). I should note that because that will also make the drag results look a little better for those kayaks as well. I have not heard of any composite kayaks crumpling from air pressure before. I'd be interested in seeing pictures or getting a good description of where and what of the damage. Black can get pretty hot in the sun and the resin would be a little more flexible when it was hot. A minute hole through the middle of the bulkhead would be the easiest solution. I imagine Stan at GRO will make sure future kayaks leaving his store will have that or another way to relieve the pressure differences. I can't imagine a Pygmy's hatch seal would be so good as to allow a big pressure differential to build up. Years ago an early Sea Kayaker magazine reported several VCP hatch lids popped off when the day heated up during a kayak testing trip. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt wrote: I can't imagine a Pygmy's hatch seal >would be so good as to allow a big pressure differential to build up. I have seen this first hand with two friends that paddle Pygmy's. One later modified his hatch, it was such a problem. Otherwise, it's great. I built one for my 10 year old. On another note, I paddled one of Matt's boats once and it was superb. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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