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From: Gerald Foodman <klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Fw: paddle analysis expectations
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:50:43 -0700
skimmer wrote:

> >For me, the only issue of interest concerns
> > whether or not one paddle or another allows the engine driving the
> > boat at some constant speed for some fixed distance to do so with
> > greater efficiency.

 This is exactly the right question to ask.

> >That means doing less work with one paddle than
> > with another to achieve that constant speed over the fixed distance.
> >
>
 Exactly right again.
>
> > Do you believe that such a difference, if it exists, will be
> > detectable?
>
 It is easily detectable.  I have just done an experiment with the following
 paddles, all of which I have owned for many years and all of which I am
used
 to:  A 216 cm Descente, big blade paddle,  a 230 cm narrow blade old style
 Werner Little Dipper, a 231 cm AT bent shaft paddle.  I paddled the same
 distance with each at a hard but comfortable pace without looking at the
 watch until I finished.  The distance was about 4 nautical miles and my
time
for each trial was 50 minutes, plus or minus 1 minute, or an average
slightly over 4 kts.  I did not try to match the times; it just turned out
 that way.  Results?  I was far more tired using the 216 Descente than
either
 of the other two.  It was not a subtle difference, but dramatic.  The AT
was
 also clearly more efficient than the Little Dipper, but the difference was
 not that dramatic.

 Someone else, with a different body type, different techniques would
 probably come to different conclusion.  But there is no doubt in my mind
 that anyone trying a similar experiment would easily determine which paddle
 was most efficient for him.

 Jerry
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fw: paddle analysis expectations
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:22:25 -0500
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:50:43 -0700, "Gerald Foodman"
<klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net> said:
>  Someone else, with a different body type, different techniques would
>  probably come to different conclusion.  But there is no doubt in my
>  mind that anyone trying a similar experiment would easily determine
>  which paddle was most efficient for him.

It's not just matching the paddle to the paddler but the paddle to the
boat.

I've tried to use my wing paddle in my VCP pintail and it's almost
painful.  The blade is just too big, with the boat being too slow. 

I can use the wing paddle for hours on my surf ski, and have no desire to
use it in the PinTail ever again.

It's similar to trying to ride very slowly on a bicyle in a high gear. 
Sure it
can be done, but why bother.


Kirk
-- 
  Kirk Olsen
  kork4_at_cluemail.com
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From: Gary J. MacDonald <garyj_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fw: paddle analysis expectations
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:58:38 -0400
Gerald Foodman wrote:
>  It is easily detectable.  I have just done an experiment with the following
>  paddles, all of which I have owned for many years and all of which I am
> used
>  to:  A 216 cm Descente, big blade paddle,  a 230 cm narrow blade old style
>  Werner Little Dipper, a 231 cm AT bent shaft paddle.  I paddled the same
>  distance with each at a hard but comfortable pace without looking at the
>  watch until I finished.  The distance was about 4 nautical miles and my
> time
> for each trial was 50 minutes, plus or minus 1 minute, or an average
> slightly over 4 kts.  I did not try to match the times; it just turned out
>  that way.  Results?  I was far more tired using the 216 Descente than
> either
>  of the other two.  It was not a subtle difference, but dramatic.  The AT
> was
>  also clearly more efficient than the Little Dipper, but the difference was
>  not that dramatic.

Interesting.
Subjective opinions based on this experience might be useful too.
Do you think the difference (or magnitude of difference) was more due to 
paddle length, blade size, or what?

(e.g. For canoe paddles, the shaft lenght is actully more important than 
overall paddle length, and probably affects efficiency as you describe.)

>  Someone else, with a different body type, different techniques would
>  probably come to different conclusion.  But there is no doubt in my mind
>  that anyone trying a similar experiment would easily determine which paddle
>  was most efficient for him.

Personal Qs re body type:  hieght, weight, sleeve length, muscular vs. 
endurance type physique?

(The efficient paddle question does fascinate me.)

GaryJ
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From: Gerald Foodman <klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fw: paddle analysis expectations
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:21:08 -0700
> Subjective opinions based on this experience might be useful too.
> Do you think the difference (or magnitude of difference) was more due to
> paddle length, blade size, or what?

I am an experimental type and do not find it useful to speculate too much on
the reasons, though that may be fun.  I would rather just try the different
paddles at hand and control the test conditions to those I typically paddle,
and see which one makes me less tired.  Note that this may not be the one
that "feels" best or is most enjoyable to use.

> Personal Qs re body type:  hieght, weight, sleeve length, muscular vs.
> endurance type physique?

I am 5'11", 170 lbs, in good condition.  Three hours at 4 kts is a very good
pace for me but I need a nap afterwards.  I have raced but always ended up
in the middle of the pack, and don't race anymore.

Jerry

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From: Gary J. MacDonald <garyj_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fw: paddle analysis expectations
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:35:25 -0400
Gerald Foodman wrote:

> I am an experimental type and do not find it useful to speculate too much on
> the reasons, though that may be fun.  I would rather just try the different
> paddles at hand and control the test conditions to those I typically paddle,
> and see which one makes me less tired.  Note that this may not be the one
> that "feels" best or is most enjoyable to use.

> I am 5'11", 170 lbs, in good condition.  Three hours at 4 kts is a very good
> pace for me but I need a nap afterwards.  I have raced but always ended up
> in the middle of the pack, and don't race anymore.

So:  experienced paddler, experienced in pace control (Or you would have 
gone nuts racing) average size and not a paddler whose style is affected 
by relying on muscle(or lack of) rather than technique, and no outsized 
arm or torso length to skew effectiveness of one paddle vs. another.

To my analytical mind, that all suggests the observations from the 
original experiment may have good applicability to other people and 
situations.

(I believe we have become too willing to seek the perfect toy for each 
use, whenin fact the difference between what we usually find comfortable 
and the "best" may be only a few percent.)

GaryJ

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