----- Original Message ----- > The recreational boats are in a lesser class, and do not belong on exposed > waters ... unless one likes swimming [grin]. > Dave Kruger I sometimes think rec boats don't get their proper respect. I know I didn't realize how much I enjoyed my OT Loon 160T until I got a "real" kayak (QCC 500xl). While I've only been paddling a year, I've paddled my Loon out in the ocean of Orange County, CA in the same conditions that I've been in with my QCC and the only difference is I don't need a paddle float or bracing strokes when I'm in my Loon. I have dry bags filled with MT 2 liter soda bottles for flotation and I made a half skirt for paddling solo, the advantages of an eight foot cockpit. I imagine ocean conditions around here are a little more tame than other areas; I don't take it out when there are large breaking swells, but I've landed it on the beach at Laguna while paddling double. I've even taken it out a couple of times right after a storm in probably 8+ swells and lived to tell about it. I admit though, I don't mind the idea of swimming. I just have had a lot of fun in it, no rudder, solo or double. I still feel a lot more comfortable in it than my QCC, but it's just too heavy to carry and paddle all the time. Like most kayaks, I still think your safety is more a function of your ability than your boat. Mark Sanders *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: (about his OldTown Loon 160) >>> Like most kayaks, I still think your safety is more a function of your ability than your boat.<<< Mark, I hope you're talking about your ability to predict sea conditions and to know your limits. In the Loon series, only your ability to paddle forward is applicable. Bracing, rolling and rescuing are out of the question. I've paddled a Loon 120 for a couple of years, also in rough conditions: Paddled some big lakes, sea and surf in it. They feel real stable and solid even on quite rough seas. No problem so far. Problems arise when the sea gets just a little bit rougher, and then they can build up fast: - Too stable to brace: When the boats wants to capsise, there is no way to prevent it; - Impossible to roll: Too stable, seat is too wide, no thigh braces; - No way to really secure a sprayskirt: It will pop when a small wave dumps on it; - When surfing without a sprayskirt, the wave you're surfing can easily get over the rim of the cockpit and fill the boat within seconds; - Difficult to rescue, due to high volume and no bulkheads; - Self rescue possible, but bailing takes forever; - No solid way to secure floatation bags. I will not go into the physics of the forces on those bags, but believe me: You wouldn't believe me. In other words: What would be a minor problem in a seakayak (popped skirt, capsize) will spell disaster in a rec boat, unless you stay close to shore. Stay safe, Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Niels Blaauw wrote >Mark, I hope you're talking about your ability to predict sea conditions >and to know your limits. Exactly. I wouldn't take my Loon out in seas that I knew would be too challenging and I don't think rec boats are something you'd want on open crossings. But I don't even take my sea kayak out in conditions that would challenge my Loon at this point. It seems to me that the fact that you take your Loon out in conditions that others would consider beyond its capabilities makes the point that these boats don't always have to be relegated to flat water. Your right that stability works both right side up an upside down, but the ability to roll this boat isn't too important to me as I can't roll my sea kayak either. For me right now, in the same sea conditions, I'm feel I'm safer in my Loon, as reentry for a 275lb guy is alot easier with a 8ft cockpit than a 30" one. As you say, right now I do all my paddling close to shore and I don't underestimate the ability to swim. Mark Sanders *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > - No solid way to secure floatation bags. I will not go into the physics > of the forces on those bags, but believe me: You wouldn't believe me. > Agreed. Polyethilene which recreationals are mostly made of, doesn't stick well to anything. No way to glue or epoxy eyes, loops etc. In overnight trips again the question arises how to secure the loaded gear in a boat without bulkheads. Wide, short and slow touring polyethilene kayak (almost recreational) with hatches and rudder seems to be more usable thing in pretty wide range of conditions. Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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