Re: [Paddlewise] Down VS Synthetic

> choice was the down bag for the following two main reasons , a ) it packs
smaller
> than a synthetic bag , b ) it is more comfortable over a wider temperature
range
> than a synthetic  bag .

It packs *much* smaller - probably 2 times less than same warmth synthetic.
I mean - it *can* be packed that small, though this really may cause
irreversible shrinkage of volume.

>a non issue .  Being of the firm belief that everyone he knows has always
> managed to keep their toilet paper dry on such outings and it is just as
easy to
> keep your down sleeping bag dry .

Here the necessity to keep it in a drybag luckily coincides with the ease of
packing it there, due to small volume.  Mine 0 C (30F) down bag packs into
supplied nylon sack 8x10" (I think its 7.5x11") and then into 20L drybag
together with camping clothing (I don't use compression drybags).  Sales
clerk showed how to pack it into the sack  - tail goes first, than grabbing
and showing it in with a fist, rotating the sack.  Down bag needs to hang
loosely in the closet when not in use (synthetic bags will benefit from this
too, I think).

> newer synthetic bags are much better than older types because the newer
types of
> synthetic filler are getting closer to the quality of down  filler . Just
not
> that close yet .

Yes, they use hollow synthetic fibers now; still, they are at least twice
more bulky than down bags (probably in a compression drybag synthetic bag
can be compressed to 1.5 of the size of the same warmth sleeping bag).
Unfortunately compression drybags are heavy and don't allow any "give",
being stiff as wooden logs when they are compressed.  Not that I'm against
compression drybags, just some observations.

> a personal choice . His main point was that with modern dry bags one
should never
> have a problem with your bag getting wet and managing that would allow you
to use
> a down bag if your choose .

Well, there is always a possibility to wet it outside the drybag.  I mean,
tent floor or Thermarest can be wet, or you leave it outside to ventilate in
the evening and dew will condensate before you notice that.  It won't soak
it through, of course.

> > states that any bag , synthetic or down , loses 10% of it loft the first
time it
> is compressed . Loses an additional 2% of loft with each additional
compression
> and is most damaged by being sat on while compressed .

I can believe in the initial 10%, but can't believe in 2%.  I don't see that
my down bag has lost 50% of loft after 25 semi-compressed packings  (using
fist and X-small sack, the smallest they had in stock).  May be I don't
compress it as hard as compression drybag would (and don't need to to be
compressed more - it's already compact in the sack).  Still, after just 2
years of moderate use down started to ooze out through the fabric.  I
suspect that fabric qulality is to blame for that rather than frequent
compressions.

For shorter trips with little supplies and in a medium or high-volume kayak
synthetic bag is OK. I support this idea - to get it rated for 30-40 F, with
fleece liner to insert in colder nights (or for using fleece as a warm
weather sleeping bag).  Such contraption will be bulkier than a down bag, of
course.
Alex.

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