Hi folks! I becoming more and more interested in skin-on-frame boats and would like to try and build one. I'm not bold enough to get one of the three books SK reviewed last month and go it alone. Rather, I'd enjoy doing the building in a class or with others. I live in York county in Maine, so I can travel to some reasonably large population centers. Of course I'm always looking at Qajaq USA and various outfitters web sites and pamphlets. I'd be interested if anyone in my area knew of an opportunity to build a SOF with a bit of "security and support." Thanks in advance! Tom *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:45:24 -0400, "TomL" <tletourn_at_maine.rr.com> said: > I'm becoming more and more interested in skin-on-frame boats and would like > to try and build one. I'm not bold enough to get one of the three books > SK reviewed last month and go it alone. Oh, go it alone ;-) There are lots of resources available for building now. Way back when I built my aluminum framed baidarka the books on building were not readily available. I only knew about George Dyson's Baidarka and that is NOT a building guide. I found there was a dearth of people to ask questions of, so I started a mailing list. Which much to my surprise grew and survived. At present there are about 300 on the mailing list (baidarka_at_paddlewise.net). Qajaqusa.org is taking it's place for getting questions answered but the archives are a treasure trove of information. Many of the authors of the skin/frame books are on the baidarka mailing list so it's likely if you do have a question/issue someone who has solved the problem will answer you. I'm not sure who the regulars are on the qajaqusa.org site, it's likely many of the same people haunt both lists. There are a couple SOF authors lurking on the baidarka list who I would not expect to find on qajaqusa. > I live in York county in Maine, so I can travel to some reasonably large > population centers. Of course I'm always looking at Qajaq USA and various > outfitters web sites and pamphlets. I'd be interested if anyone in my > area > knew of an opportunity to build a SOF with a bit of "security and > support." The wooden boat school has had skin/frame classes. I don't know of anything closer to you than that. Mystic Seaport also has classes periodically. If you want to do the build as a vacation. Robert Morris has classes via BreweryCreek.ca Skinboats.com is in Anacortes WA and they build lots of boats (I'm spacing on the name of the person running that operation) Skip Snaith has been doing classes but he's on sabatical, http://www.rockisland.com/~kyak. Superior Kayaks http://www.superiorkayaks.com teaches 4 classes a year. Bruce Lemon used to have kits and teach classes, I haven't heard of him in the last couple of years. The last thing I knew he was in the Adirondacks. Without a doubt I've missed some, as that list is off the top of my head. I have no affiliation with anyone on the list and haven't taken a class. In the event that you do decide to go it alone there are a builders in your area who would be worth getting acquainted with. buy George Dyson's Baidarka for inpiration and build from one of the other books. I built from schematics/plans and it wasn't that difficult. My questions revolved around materials more than around how to do something. If I were to start building this afternoon I would start with the Robert Morris book. I've got most of the SOF books and having quickly read through them I liked the look of that one best, from a building perspective. I've also got the Brinck, Cunningham, Putz, and Starr books in case I encountered questions, besides the online resources... Kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Appreciate all your information... Melissa, Thomas, Kirk, Rcgibbert, Rick and others! Tom >... >Go ahead...be bold! As soon as I *finally* finish up the S&G Arctic >Hawk I'm building (perhaps in a week if there are no more >interruptions), I'm going to build an SOF. I bought both Chris > >On the east coast, you may want to check out the Greenland SOF >building workshops at Mystic Seaport: > >A bit inland, Mark Rogers of "Superior Kayaks" holds SOF building >workshops at his shop in Wisconsin: > >The Forum at Qajaq USA is a great place for information and >encouragement... > >In any event, enjoy your building project! > >-- >Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Do you want to spend your time kayaking or hanging out in your basement /garage? I built two SOF boats with Freedman's Skinboat school in Anacortes WA. The materials and tools, to build you own boat, can cost you more then the class. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 19 Sep 2003 at 10:01, Melissa Reese wrote: > Even if one purchases a mortising machine to make that process faster > and easier (these can be had for as little as $200), the cost of the > rest of the tools plus materials can still be comparable to the class, > and you then have the tools to build more boats. Building one's own > steam box system can be really cheap as well. Agreed. Cunningham suggests a circular saw for all long cuts. Reasonable circ saws are not too expensive. They don't require a lot of room (the saw moves 16 feet instead of the wood moving, requiring 32+feet with a fixed table or band saw.) I got a band saw as a gift, and that is a tool I prefer. Band saws are a lot more expensive than circ or even table saws. One of these tools is pretty much mandatory as ripping 16 foot long pieces into several stringers with a hand saw is nothing short of torture! I'm doing without a morticing machine (drool...), using a simple hand drill in a drill guide instead. I've made practice blind mortices (harder to do than the through mortices in an sof) using a brad point drill bit and a chisel. My set of four regular chisels (Marples, a reasonable quality mid-range brand) costs less than _one_ good morticing chisel. Takes more time than with a morticing chisel, but not so hard to do. A good, corded electric drill is a better deal in the long run and at a lower price than a finicky cordless drill. In addition to these tools, a hand saw (Japanese style are good), a scroll, jig, keyhole or similar hand saw (lacking a band saw) for the curved cuts on the end pieces and a decent plane or two (good block plane like Stanley or Record [though Lee Valley's is the best $value]) and a bench plane (optional), covers most of the bases. What you don't have, you can adapt with a good jig. Cunningham, Starr and Morris all cover these things. Beyond cutting and such, measuring and layout tools are important, but not too expensive. Purchased wisely, these tools will last for a long time and do lots of things beyond a second kayak. I would only recommend a class for someone who has absolutely no skills with woodworking and is starting from square one. It helps if there's an relative, club member, whatever to lend a hand and some further experience. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:30:31 -0700, "THOMAS CROMWELL" <tcromwell_at_msn.com> said: > Do you want to spend your time kayaking or hanging out in your basement > /garage? > > I built two SOF boats with a school. The materials and tools, to build > you own boat, can cost you more then the class. I suppose if you had very few tools and wanted a collection that would be the case. It certainly was for me. I built with aluminum and purchased a bandsaw, a floor standing drill press, 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch tube benders, and a collection of hole cutting saws during the project. Definitely the expensive route, but I wanted the tool collection for future projects. I also know of SOF boats built purely with scrounged or scrap materials - for a project cost of only the builders time. Wood from dumpster diving or locally collected (e.g. saplings and water shoots). Fabric from industrial left overs or samples. Left over house paint to coat the boat. Many SOF builders are also very frugal. Getting all of your kayak gear for free, or very little money has a certain appeal. If you have the interest, time, and resourcefulness... Building with a school definitely has some advantages, everything you need will be there, as will be the knowledge of what to do at any given point. You also don't end up wanting/needing a large workshop. For an entertaining tangent http://cowlove.com/allison/ is a pictorial of building and launching a 24' sailboat from a third floor apartment ;-) Kirk -- Kirk Olsen kork4_at_cluemail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thomas, For what it's worth, I would definitely agree with Melissa and Kirk about tools and materials. I built my baidarka without a class using materials available at Home Depot and Lowes. Even with errors, materials cost me a little over $400. I had some of the tools I needed already on hand, and bought a few new ones (hey I needed an excuse :)). I'm not a very imaginative scrounger, but I'll bet you really could get a lot of material by looking around. If you had to start from scratch, you could get by with (IMHO) a circular saw, a block plane, 1/4" and 3/4" chisels, power drill and a handful of bits, a hammer and a good knife. Oh, yeah, and a tape measure and combination square. Anything after that is gravy and just makes you life easier. Even purchasing that (hip shot estimate, no research) would only come to another $350-$400. And you don't have to buy all of either category at once. Both categories combined still come to less that I'd pay at the Wooden Boat Center for a class, for example. As they both said, it really comes down to how you want to spend your time. I enjoyed (as sick as it sounds) dealing with and solving the problems and issues that came up during my building process. I also particularly enjoyed having a project I could use decompress after work. Far be it for me to discourage you from taking a class though. I'd like to do that one day, just to be able to be taught and learn some tips and tricks from a 'master'. BTW, Melissa, what stresses you out (that might be a little strong I suspect) the most about the skinning process? Good Luck. Aaron Cunningham acunning_at_seanet.com http://aaron-cunningham.com Hobbies -> Kayak Building -> Brinck Baidarka *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > Stitching technique, and stretching it well enough so that it's > properly tight everywhere. I'm thinking that if I get some good > personal instruction/supervision as I sew my first one, I'll have the > confidence to do subsequent projects myself. Melissa, FWIW, as a string musician I'm sure you have more than enough finger dexterity to handle the stitching with good technique, and probably make a surgeon jealous as well. The technique itself is something that can practiced off the boat. The thing that I liked about the sewing, even being all thumbs, vs. the wood working, is that in most circumstances you can just remove the stitches and try it again. Stretching the skin for proper tightness is pretty straight forward. I would strongly recommend a pair of canvas pliers, however. You already live on all of the good sites, so you probably have all the tips and tricks. I used a lot of staples along the gunwales to get the hull tight, and pulled the them gradually as I sewed the deck seams. I used canvas, and not nylon, however. By the time I got to the skinning I had realized that I wasn't capable of producing a museum quality boat in my first try. Once I saw the way a boat covered with sealskin looked, I really stopped worrying about it. (See my slideshow of the Alaska Native Heritage Center if you're interested. (http://aaron-cunningham.com Personal -> Vacations/Trips -> Alaska 2003 )) I think Nick Schade mentioned recently (I think on KBBBS) that essentially a skin would have to so floppy as to be unstretched to have a significant performance impact. Wow, sorry, that really sounds close to a lecture. Sorry. Hope to see pictures of your Night Hawk in the near future. Happy Paddling. Aaron *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "THOMAS CROMWELL" <tcromwell_at_msn.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat Building with group or class? > Do you want to spend your time kayaking or hanging out in your basement > /garage? Both. I paddle the first kayak I built while I'm building a second (no, not at the same time.) Kayak building isn't for everyone. If you don't enjoy the process, and appreciate the outcome, get a store-bought. I'm presently building a stripper. I haven't been keeping track of my hours, but the number will be huge before I finish. It's going to be really cool, though! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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