Paddlewisers, At the Southwest Kayak Symposium in San Diego last weekend, I heard a representative from a kayak manufacturer say that his company is going away from the Kevlar lay-up and is going to full carbon fiber instead. He explained that doing the full carbon fiber lay-up at the same weight as a regular kayak makes the hull very strong and stood on a kayak deck to demonstrate. The thick full carbon fiber lay-up sounds good, but I am wondering about impact resistance in expedition and surf settings. I would like to hear some opinions and explanations about which is better, the usual Kelvar lay-up or full carbon fiber? Duane Strosaker Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well, I don't have kayak specific information, but I can tell you that the Champ Cars (a la Rahal, Andretti et al) are made of carbon fiber and use kevlar only in a little area where the transponder rides because the carbon goofs up the RF. That tells me they would rather be riding in carbon when they run into the concrete wall at 100 mph and up. I'd think the beach wouldn't be a problem. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mensaje citado por Carey Parks <cparks_at_fuse.net>: > Well, I don't have kayak specific information, but I can tell you that the > Champ Cars (a la Rahal, Andretti et al) are made of carbon fiber and use > kevlar only in a little area where the transponder rides because the carbon > goofs up the RF. That tells me they would rather be riding in carbon when > they run into the concrete wall at 100 mph and up. I'd think the beach > wouldn't be a problem. I doubt that the carbon fiber aesthetic and hydrodynamic cover has anything to do in reducing the impact against a concrete wall at 100 mph. The steel and special materials frames, shock absorvers, etc. are the parts that hold the car, and keep the cockpit intact. Carbon fiber does reduce the weight, very important for acceleration and fuel saving. Nothing else from my point of view. It would be a bad advise to build the fenders and motor cover of such a heavy and thick carbonglass that it would give mechanical protection. The car would be extremely heavy, even in carbon fibers. Best Regards, Rafael www.mayanseas.com ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My CF paddle blades get unbelievable abuse and never seem to break or chip. They are gradually wearing away at the tip, but I'll tire of the paddle before the wear becomes serious. I did break a small dia shaft once, but I think that was a CF/glass blend. CF is also used in military and aerospace applications where strength is critical Therefore, I think a CF kayak made as heavy as a glass one would be nearly indistructable. If I could afford it, I'd buy one and try it out :-). What manufacturer was it? Strosaker <strosaker_at_cox.net> wrote: >At the Southwest Kayak Symposium in San Diego last weekend, I heard a >representative from a kayak manufacturer say that his company is going away >from the Kevlar lay-up and is going to full carbon fiber instead. He >explained that doing the full carbon fiber lay-up at the same weight as a >regular kayak makes the hull very strong and stood on a kayak deck to >demonstrate. > >The thick full carbon fiber lay-up sounds good, but I am wondering about >impact resistance in expedition and surf settings. I would like to hear some >opinions and explanations about which is better, the usual Kelvar lay-up or >full carbon fiber? Steve Brown *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Brown wrote: > My CF paddle blades get unbelievable abuse and never seem to break or > chip. They are gradually wearing away at the tip, but I'll tire of > the paddle before the wear becomes serious. I did break a small dia > shaft once, but I think that was a CF/glass blend. When pure CF shafts break, they tend to do so catastrophically. I saw a Canadian slalom paddler break a paddle in half catching an eddy on the Ocoee River. The shaft looked like it had been hacksawed in two. Of course, that was a racing layup, so perhaps not as robust as one would use for cruising. Whetstone (RIP) put a layer of glass inside their carbon paddles to give them a little more resilience. -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It was a whetstone paddle and it broke virtually as you describe. I'm still using a whetstone paddle, but now with the fatter WW shaft. Seems ok so far, but I'm not sure any paddle would survive what I did to the first one. Steve Brown When pure CF shafts break, they tend to do so catastrophically. I saw a Canadian slalom paddler break a paddle in half catching an eddy on the Ocoee River. The shaft looked like it had been hacksawed in two. Of course, that was a racing layup, so perhaps not as robust as one would use for cruising. Whetstone (RIP) put a layer of glass inside their carbon paddles to give them a little more resilience. -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Carbon fiber is very strong with static loads but is not very good in impact. While race cars use a lot of carbon fiber they use it differently than you want for a kayak. Race cars are not intended to survive impacts fully intact. Part of what they want is for the construction to fail in such a way that it absorbs a lot of energy before it gets to the driver. If it breaks catastrophically that is OK, so long as by the time the impact gets to the driver most of the energy is absorbed. Carbon fiber is used a lot in race kayaks. A Van Dusen sprint boat built of pre-preg carbon fiber and Nomex core weights about 14 lbs. They are quite strong for the loads they are designed to take, but you could probably put a pencil through them without to much effort. You can build up carbon fiber to be very strong, but enough carbon to give good impact resistance for a boat would be quite pricey. It is better to mix some other materials in to increase the impact resistance. On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 07:33 PM, Strosaker wrote: > > The thick full carbon fiber lay-up sounds good, but I am wondering > about > impact resistance in expedition and surf settings. I would like to > hear some > opinions and explanations about which is better, the usual Kelvar > lay-up or > full carbon fiber? > Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (i.e. headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] Y'all.... I just getting ready to place an order for a new Looksha 4, with their new Carbon Lay-up..... It's my understanding from Necky that these boats are NOT pure carbon-fiber, but rather they are using Carbon Fiber where they traditionally used Kevlar; in addition, they are using some type of infusion method to manage some of the issues raised here, like impact resistance; apparently, a similar technology is used for aircraft, and is quite durable..... So as Necky goes high tech, I wonder how my new boat will behave when it goes airborne in the surf!!!! simeon On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 02:06 PM, Nick Schade wrote: > Carbon fiber is very strong with static loads but is not very good in > impact.<snip> > > On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 07:33 PM, Strosaker wrote: >> >> The thick full carbon fiber lay-up sounds good, but I am wondering >> about >> impact resistance in expedition and surf settings. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I heard second (or third) hand that Necky made Ed Gillett's Tesla from a super duty all CF lay-up. I emailed Necky about it months ago, but they never responded. Maybe they were saving the information for a product release, or maybe they checked my credit and found that I couldn't afford one anyway. The question I would like to hear answered is this: If you made a CF boat that weighed as much as glass, would it be significantly stronger than glass? Any mechanical engineers out there that have actually done the analysis or boat builders who have actually tried it? Steve Brown -----Original Message----- Y'all.... I just getting ready to place an order for a new Looksha 4, with their new Carbon Lay-up..... It's my understanding from Necky that these boats are NOT pure carbon-fiber, but rather they are using Carbon Fiber where they traditionally used Kevlar; simeon *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day, Its the stormy season again in Sydney. Can anyone tell me if there is any truth to the story I hear over and over again that carbon paddles attract lightning more than fiberglass? I've never understood how this can be so as I shouldn't have thoght the carbon fibres formed a continuous conducting path. It seems to me one needn't worry about the paddle in a storm. The paddle will be OK because the human body is much more conductive and more likely to attract lightning. But I'ld be interested to hear reasons why I might be wrong. All the best, PeterO. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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