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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Carbon Fiber Paddles and Lightning?
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:09:08 -0700
 "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> asked:

>> Can anyone tell me if there is any truth to the story I hear over and over
again that carbon paddles attract lightning more than fiberglass? I've never
understood how this can be so as I shouldn't have thoght the carbon fibres
formed a continuous conducting path. >>

This issue has been raised before.  The bottom line is that the voltages
involved in lightning are so enormous our "normal" thinking about what forms
a conductor and what does not needs to be thoroughly rearranged.

Here's my scan:

1. Lightning voltage is so great it ionizes and forms a glowing gaseous
plasma of whatever it contacts, forming good conductors of __anything__:
tree limbs, rocks, pencils, finger tips, iron rods, paddle surfaces, you name
it.  They all conduct current __at the voltage of a lightning strike__. Any
object denser than the surrounding air raised as a lightning rod will be a
"conductor", because it is likely to be wet during a lightning storm, and the
water on its surface is "conductive"  __at the impulse voltages of
lightning__, which are millions of volts.  In short, once struck, it makes
little difference what you are holding, although metal objects in the hand
lead to "hot spots" and localized burning, irrespective of whether cardiac
arrest has already killed you.

2.  A "good conductor" in the context of "low" voltage (<100 volts, say) such
as metals, carbon fibers, and the like, raised as a lightning rod, will be
__at greater risk__ to be struck by lightning,  __because it raises the
electrical potential at that point__.  In conversational parlance, it
"attracts lightning to it."  In other words, in a forest of sticks all at the
same height pointing to the sky, the lone stick coated (or made of) metal
will almost certainly be the one struck.

So how does this translate for Peter's question?  How about this:

If Peter extends his paddle upwards, by intention or otherwise, it matters
little whether it is made of wood, fiberglass/epoxy, or carbon fiber, as long
as his "lightning rod" is the only object sticking up above the water in the
near vicinity.  His paddle shaft is likely to be what gets struck.

If Peter extends his carbon fiber paddle up in a horde of paddlers also
extending their paddles upward, the rest of whom are equipped with much less
"conductive" paddles (in the low voltage sense), then the electric potential
at Peter will be somewhat greater, and Peter is very likely to be the one
struck ... if lightning strikes in the vicinity.  If Peter were to paddle
with a highly conductive paddle (metal shaft and metal blades), then the
chance he will be struck goes up quite a bit, because the low-voltage
conductivity of metals is a lot higher than carbon fiber, raising the
electrical potential on Peter's shaft.

Carbon fiber is much less conductive (in the low voltage sense) than metals,
and a little more conductive than epoxy./glass so there is a slightly greater
risk to use a carbon fiber paddle.

The lessons in this might be:

1. Don't paddle when lighning is about; choice of paddle shaft type makes
almost no difference, unless you can keep your paddle shaft and blades dry.
2. If you are forced to paddle in a lightning storm, keep a low profile and a
low stroke.
3. A good preventative might be to bring along a "friend" equipped with a
metal shafted paddle, and to paddle near him ... but not __too__ close!
[grin]

(P.S.:  A key concept here is what forms a higher electrical potential -- 
those who wish to pursue that might do a Google search on same and pursue how
charged clouds (and earth) induce changes in charge distribution and hence in
electrical potential.  Or, we could just skip it and head out for another
ale!)

--
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR

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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carbon Fiber Paddles and Lightning?
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:51:27 -0400
On 10 Oct 2003 at 8:09, Dave Kruger wrote:

[... lots of good info elided...]
> 2. If you are forced to paddle in a lightning storm, keep
> a low profile and a low stroke.

And remember that lots of sailboats with aluminum masts in the 10-15m 
height range are scattered all around the globe in the water every 
day and rarely suffer lighting strikes.  You are at risk, but don't 
get overly stressed about it.  The probabilities are in the same 
range as winning mulit-million dollar lotteries.  They happen, they 
just don't tend to happen to you.

Mike

PS - make sure you and your group members are up on CPR - CPR has a 
higher rate of success with lightning strike victims than with heart 
attack victims - you may be mostly dead, but you're mostly dead with 
a healthy heart.

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From: Bob Denton <bdenton_at_soytek.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Carbon Fiber Paddles and Lightning?
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:58:12 -0400
Here in Florida your chance of being hit is HIGHER than winning the
lottery.

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From: Michael Neverdosky <mikenever_at_earthlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carbon Fiber Paddles and Lightning?
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:05:43 -0400
Bob Denton wrote:
> 
> Here in Florida your chance of being hit is HIGHER than winning the
> lottery.

I can support this. I have been hit by lightning but have not won
the lottery.
:-)(

michael
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From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Carbon Fiber Paddles and Lightning?
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:36:44 +1000
Dave wrote: -
>Lightning voltage is so great it ionizes and
>forms a glowing gaseous plasma of whatever it
>contacts, forming good conductors of __anything
................
>If Peter extends his carbon fiber paddle up in a
>horde of paddlers also extending their paddles
>upward, the rest of whom are equipped with much less
>"conductive" paddles (in the low voltage sense), then
>the electric potential at Peter will be somewhat
>greater, and Peter is very likely to be the one
>struck ... if lightning strikes in the vicinity.

G'Day Dave and Paddlewise ,

Thanks for the clear description of the effect of plasma on objects in the
vicinity of lightning. I'll forgo the experimental test:~).

My question is now a bit obscure as I'm really interested in whether a
paddle shaft is conductive at all at low voltages. Is the carbon fibre in a
paddle a continuous weave and do the fibres make electrical contact with
each other despite the presence of all that insulating resin?

I suppose I could cut up my $400 carbon paddle to find out!

All the best, PeterO
(Who will continue to get off the water if at all possible at the first sign
of a thunderstorm.)


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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Carbon Fiber Paddles and Lightning?
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:26:34 -0400
On 11 Oct 2003 at 6:36, PeterO wrote:

> My question is now a bit obscure as I'm really interested in whether a
> paddle shaft is conductive at all at low voltages. Is the carbon fibre
> in a paddle a continuous weave and do the fibres make electrical
> contact with each other despite the presence of all that insulating
> resin?
> 
> I suppose I could cut up my $400 carbon paddle to find out!

Don't bother - I have a broken shaft that I picked up off the ground 
at a kayaking event - Lendal Grade 1F (25% fiberglass, 75% carbon)

Measuring with a beat up old volt-ohmmeter, I find that the 
resistance from one end to the other varies from 20 to 40 ohms 
depending on where I place the probe at one end.  It would appear 
that there's a slight variation in resistance across the fibers.  The 
length of the piece is 17.5 inches.

Mike

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From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Carbon Fiber Paddles and Lightning?
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:56:46 +1000
Mike wrote: -
>Don't bother - I have a broken shaft that I picked 
>up off the ground at a kayaking event...............
Measuring with a beat up old volt-ohmmeter, I find that the 
resistance from one end to the other varies from 20 to 40 ohms 
depending on where I place the probe at one end......... The 
length of the piece is 17.5 inches.

G'day Mike and Paddlewise,

40 ohms is low enough to convince me. My wallet and I thank you:~)

All the best, PeterO

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