"PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> asked: >> Can anyone tell me if there is any truth to the story I hear over and over again that carbon paddles attract lightning more than fiberglass? I've never understood how this can be so as I shouldn't have thoght the carbon fibres formed a continuous conducting path. >> This issue has been raised before. The bottom line is that the voltages involved in lightning are so enormous our "normal" thinking about what forms a conductor and what does not needs to be thoroughly rearranged. Here's my scan: 1. Lightning voltage is so great it ionizes and forms a glowing gaseous plasma of whatever it contacts, forming good conductors of __anything__: tree limbs, rocks, pencils, finger tips, iron rods, paddle surfaces, you name it. They all conduct current __at the voltage of a lightning strike__. Any object denser than the surrounding air raised as a lightning rod will be a "conductor", because it is likely to be wet during a lightning storm, and the water on its surface is "conductive" __at the impulse voltages of lightning__, which are millions of volts. In short, once struck, it makes little difference what you are holding, although metal objects in the hand lead to "hot spots" and localized burning, irrespective of whether cardiac arrest has already killed you. 2. A "good conductor" in the context of "low" voltage (<100 volts, say) such as metals, carbon fibers, and the like, raised as a lightning rod, will be __at greater risk__ to be struck by lightning, __because it raises the electrical potential at that point__. In conversational parlance, it "attracts lightning to it." In other words, in a forest of sticks all at the same height pointing to the sky, the lone stick coated (or made of) metal will almost certainly be the one struck. So how does this translate for Peter's question? How about this: If Peter extends his paddle upwards, by intention or otherwise, it matters little whether it is made of wood, fiberglass/epoxy, or carbon fiber, as long as his "lightning rod" is the only object sticking up above the water in the near vicinity. His paddle shaft is likely to be what gets struck. If Peter extends his carbon fiber paddle up in a horde of paddlers also extending their paddles upward, the rest of whom are equipped with much less "conductive" paddles (in the low voltage sense), then the electric potential at Peter will be somewhat greater, and Peter is very likely to be the one struck ... if lightning strikes in the vicinity. If Peter were to paddle with a highly conductive paddle (metal shaft and metal blades), then the chance he will be struck goes up quite a bit, because the low-voltage conductivity of metals is a lot higher than carbon fiber, raising the electrical potential on Peter's shaft. Carbon fiber is much less conductive (in the low voltage sense) than metals, and a little more conductive than epoxy./glass so there is a slightly greater risk to use a carbon fiber paddle. The lessons in this might be: 1. Don't paddle when lighning is about; choice of paddle shaft type makes almost no difference, unless you can keep your paddle shaft and blades dry. 2. If you are forced to paddle in a lightning storm, keep a low profile and a low stroke. 3. A good preventative might be to bring along a "friend" equipped with a metal shafted paddle, and to paddle near him ... but not __too__ close! [grin] (P.S.: A key concept here is what forms a higher electrical potential -- those who wish to pursue that might do a Google search on same and pursue how charged clouds (and earth) induce changes in charge distribution and hence in electrical potential. Or, we could just skip it and head out for another ale!) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 10 Oct 2003 at 8:09, Dave Kruger wrote: [... lots of good info elided...] > 2. If you are forced to paddle in a lightning storm, keep > a low profile and a low stroke. And remember that lots of sailboats with aluminum masts in the 10-15m height range are scattered all around the globe in the water every day and rarely suffer lighting strikes. You are at risk, but don't get overly stressed about it. The probabilities are in the same range as winning mulit-million dollar lotteries. They happen, they just don't tend to happen to you. Mike PS - make sure you and your group members are up on CPR - CPR has a higher rate of success with lightning strike victims than with heart attack victims - you may be mostly dead, but you're mostly dead with a healthy heart. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Here in Florida your chance of being hit is HIGHER than winning the lottery. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: > > Here in Florida your chance of being hit is HIGHER than winning the > lottery. I can support this. I have been hit by lightning but have not won the lottery. :-)( michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave wrote: - >Lightning voltage is so great it ionizes and >forms a glowing gaseous plasma of whatever it >contacts, forming good conductors of __anything ................ >If Peter extends his carbon fiber paddle up in a >horde of paddlers also extending their paddles >upward, the rest of whom are equipped with much less >"conductive" paddles (in the low voltage sense), then >the electric potential at Peter will be somewhat >greater, and Peter is very likely to be the one >struck ... if lightning strikes in the vicinity. G'Day Dave and Paddlewise , Thanks for the clear description of the effect of plasma on objects in the vicinity of lightning. I'll forgo the experimental test:~). My question is now a bit obscure as I'm really interested in whether a paddle shaft is conductive at all at low voltages. Is the carbon fibre in a paddle a continuous weave and do the fibres make electrical contact with each other despite the presence of all that insulating resin? I suppose I could cut up my $400 carbon paddle to find out! All the best, PeterO (Who will continue to get off the water if at all possible at the first sign of a thunderstorm.) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11 Oct 2003 at 6:36, PeterO wrote: > My question is now a bit obscure as I'm really interested in whether a > paddle shaft is conductive at all at low voltages. Is the carbon fibre > in a paddle a continuous weave and do the fibres make electrical > contact with each other despite the presence of all that insulating > resin? > > I suppose I could cut up my $400 carbon paddle to find out! Don't bother - I have a broken shaft that I picked up off the ground at a kayaking event - Lendal Grade 1F (25% fiberglass, 75% carbon) Measuring with a beat up old volt-ohmmeter, I find that the resistance from one end to the other varies from 20 to 40 ohms depending on where I place the probe at one end. It would appear that there's a slight variation in resistance across the fibers. The length of the piece is 17.5 inches. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike wrote: - >Don't bother - I have a broken shaft that I picked >up off the ground at a kayaking event............... Measuring with a beat up old volt-ohmmeter, I find that the resistance from one end to the other varies from 20 to 40 ohms depending on where I place the probe at one end......... The length of the piece is 17.5 inches. G'day Mike and Paddlewise, 40 ohms is low enough to convince me. My wallet and I thank you:~) All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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