I've been monitoring ER reports that come across my desk for the last couple of weeks since the Polar Bear issue was raised. I was looking out for animal attacks. Interestingly, one of the ER hospitals in California had a flow chart check box for animal bites, etc. It started out with "provoked" and "unprovoked." Once the emergency room physicians checks off "provoked", the next option asks whether the patient entered, or did not enter, the animal's domain. Thought that was interesting, especially as the provoked section did not include the domain option. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Interesting. There can be a lot of philosophical debate here. The word "domain" is so closely related to "dominion" that I can't resist offering an opinion: Animals have domains which I recognize, but they all don't seem to recognize that my domain can overlap or fully encompass theirs if I so desire. This can have negative consequences for them if they are small, negative ones for me if they are big and fangy, or even negative consequences on the big & fangy ones if I am sufficiently armed (I do my best). Provocation, on the other hand, is a different story. Domain or no, some people seem to be asking for it. While I feel for their families, that "bear expert" and his girlfriend who were recently eaten provide examples of unnecessary, arrogant, and disrespectful behavior toward animals. The tiger trainer in Vegas who was recently mauled (I think still in a coma) is another, and the man last seen chasing down Killer Whales in his kayak (See "Deep Trouble") was also asking for trouble. (On the last example only those Orca will ever know for sure, but my innate paranoia tells me that they are smart enough to hide the evidence when they feel killing a human is justifiable) On the other hand, I do not feel that justifiable "provocation" includes just being in what the animal perceives as his domain. To fully accept that notion has far reaching consequences that would change each of our lives in a very negative way. If any have doubts about that, just tell me where you live, and with a little research I'll tell you which species would have a "right" to remove you from their domain by force if necessary. In the discussion about Polar Bears, no one (including me) seemed to feel fully confident about a gun being able to protect them 100% of the time from ending up on the menu. So, at the end of the day, philosophy and opinions aside, whoever has the biggest fangs or gun on a particular day is the one who's opinion counts the most. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- ....... Interestingly, one of the ER hospitals in California had a flow chart check box for animal bites, etc. It started out with "provoked" and "unprovoked." Once the emergency room physicians checks off "provoked", the next option asks whether the patient entered, or did not enter, the animal's domain. Thought that was interesting, especially as the provoked section did not include the domain option. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve said (snip): >>Interesting. There can be a lot of philosophical debate here. The word "domain" is so closely related to "dominion" that I can't resist offering an opinion:........So, at the end of the day, philosophy and opinions aside, whoever has the biggest fangs or gun on a particular day is the one who's opinion counts the most.<< Kinda thought I'd get a reaction from you Steve, what with the "dominion mandate" thing and all, though I made the post simply because I found it rather interesting the way the ER report was mapped out -- sort of a double-take as I read it, that's all. It was a pre-printed form. Obviously I don't think that entering an animal's domain is reason enough for provocation, or justification/validation for an animal attack, but I would tacitly agree that entering a known and dangerous predatory domain may predispose one to what should be anticipatory, higher risk (like entering certain parts of Seattle at night). I have a charismatic (big C) friend who revealed to me that he "rebukes" threatening wildlife "in the name of Jesus." Maybe it works. He moved to northern BC a few years ago. I haven't heard from him in a while. I assume he's okay, um, God willing. Me? I'll just name drop: "Hey bear, I'm a friend of Rev. Bob; I got a couple of Orcas on standby, so back off...!" Seriously though, in Polar Bear country, I'd carry a .416 Remington Magnum with 400 grain African Glam Slam ballistics - as backup you know. I'd forgo preliminary target practice though, as my compilation of minor-fang fillings has increased in value dramatically in recent years, and I'd rather keep them intact, as would my dentist. In the mean time, I do need to work on this issue I have with God-fearing men and women who seem to forget that any dominion decree from the Creator necessarily includes the notion of keen, savvy stewardship, which seems to have been lost in the "translation." But that's another subject, off-topic, and doesn't necessarily mean I have issues with anyone on this particular list. BTW, the RCMP are investigating an on-water (or is that in-water?) beating/assault by a surfer of a father and his thirteen year-old son. They were attacked in the waves at Jordan River a few weeks ago after the father's son allegedly "dropped in on the agro-surfer's wave." Just who are the animals anyway? Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/16/2003 8:16:45 PM Central Standard Time, dalloyd_at_telus.net writes: > Seriously though, in Polar Bear country, I'd carry a .416 Remington Magnum > with 400 grain African Glam Slam ballistics - as backup you know. Let's see: a12 pound rifle and 1 pound of ammo, 13pounds total. A 90 pound VCP Nordkapp (the DL layup, of course), with a diminishing payload from 350 pounds to 300 pounds due to DL layup. 175 paddler (?) with 25 pounds of extraneous paddling gear including apparrel, repair gear, 1st aid, extra paddles, PFD's, etc. Seems like we have about 87 pounds of freeboard leftover for the food, water and 4 season freestanding tents, Doug! Dee-Hi anyone? Satirical (respectfully, ofcourse) Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Cheeky Rob said: >>Let's see: a12 pound rifle and 1 pound of ammo, 13pounds total. A 90 pound VCP Nordkapp (the DL layup, of course), with a diminishing payload from 350 pounds to 300 pounds due to DL layup. 175 paddler (?) with 25 pounds of extraneous paddling gear including apparrel, repair gear, 1st aid, extra paddles, PFD's, etc. Seems like we have about 87 pounds of freeboard leftover for the food, water and 4 season freestanding tents, Doug! Dee-Hi anyone?<< 175? I wish. You are right, Rob, a heavy Big Game gun wouldn't cut it. A nice lightweight SMG would be fine (that's a machine gun to you civies out there). Funny you should reply right now, I just read in the paper a minute ago after dinner about a man from Williams Lake (BC interior) who fended off a bear and subsequently killed it with a 9cm knife. Highlights: -John Hirsch never goes anywhere without his knife -The bear circled Hirsch while he faced it down, it was like wary wrestlers -The ensuing knife-fight was like an old-time western -Bear swatted and lunged, but Hirsch kept stabbing the bear -Hirsch had the wits to stay upright -The bear had a severed tongue and was hungry and in poor shape. -It never occurred to Hirsch that he would loose the fight, he considered himself at least equal to the bear -However long it took, Hirsch new he's come out okay. So forget the SMG, I'll take a knife, and no Dee-Hi, I'll just eat the bears. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd said: > Guess you couldn't lull them to sleep, Steve H., playing a > quiet harmonica tune, eh? :-) Doug, That would probably enable you "to become one with the bears" very quickly. Steve H. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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