Geoff wrote: <Snip>>>>>>>A trip to Bahia de Gonzaga in Baja ripped the factory rails out fo the roof, though still firmly attached to the Yakima gear. Made my $150 doller trip into an $800+ trip, as body work was required to fix it. Major bummer. <Snip><<<<<< Matt said, <Snip>>>>>>>...Speaking of cars and kayakers, I sure miss rain gutters. Maybe this is the issue we should all write our congressmen and car companies about :-). Either bring back rain gutters on cars or make decent factory racks that are suitable for carrying three or four kayaks (to encourage carpooling and less vehicles needed for long shuttles--if you want to argue "green"). ...<Snip>>>>>>> ********************* ....good point, Amen-Brother, bring raingutters back. I had real welded integral gutters on an old Mitsu Montero. We carried WW canoes and kayaks for 5 on oversized racks, also doubles and singles in Baja on heinous "roads" with no problems. The newer Tacoma pickup was too short in the rear shell for good support with the fake raingutters, so I dropped the headliner and bolted fake raingutters over the cab for a longer support base for sea kayaks--from cab to back of shell. The fake gutters are bolted into the overhead framing members, with spacers in the hollow core of the framing. Nothing is visible inside with headliner replaced. The trick is to bolt into meat in the roof, not just skin-and avoid the wires. They're on there for good, but who's afraid of c-c-committment. The fake gutters come with a rubber gasket that goes between the body and gutter, with silicone sealant. It helps to pinch the ends of the ~ 6" piece of aluminum fake rain gutter so that the feet can't slide past the ends if not tight. No need to buy new feet for the Thule racks. Again, no problems with rough roads and multiple kayaks, trips in Baja, etc. I always use bow/stern lines with slight tension, sometimes tied in an inverted "V" pattern. That is, tied to 2 points on the vehicle, one at bow/stern. Am looking into a loop of stout bungee in the lines to keep tension. (The newer non-raingutter feet appear weaker than old style. A less positive grip.) It's funny how carmakers try to cultivate this outdoorsy marketing image, then make such cheesy attchments for the stuff people will carry if indeed they really DO these outdoorsy things. (End of rant.) It might not be popular to "test" factory rails on a car lot, by trying to wrench them loose with a gorilla grip, but it would be good to know what's really holding them on. To be fair, I have seen advertising-laden Subarus apparently loaned to WW Kayak competitors that were so loaded with boats that you could hardly see the car underneath. They did not appear to be worried about losing the load, despite many long-distance trips. I'll scrutinize the setup they use next time I see one. Regards, Jay Gingrich *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 4 Feb 2004 at 23:32, Jay G wrote: > Amen-Brother, bring > raingutters back. Don't bother - we need good design, not a step backwards. What we need to do is convince more auto makers to add built-in rack mounts. Some Swedish cars have these as do several VW models. It's a no-brainer to design a good, waterproof rack mount that allows someone to attach a tough and strong rack to a vehicle. This doesn't have to stick out into the wind when the rack is removed. It would also allow for more than the 150-165lb load limit currently found. Having factory racks made into something other than a decoration is also a no-brainer. As long as the makers are meeting a market based on looks rather than function, we don't get useful products. If they realize that there is a viable market for these products then we might see these things become standard. As far as how many kayaks can be carried, don't forget that the limits to the width of a bar are set by the govt. In most jurisdictions, you cannot have the bars overhanging the side of the vehicle. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> It's a no-brainer to design a good, waterproof rack mount that allows > someone to attach a tough and strong rack to a vehicle. This doesn't > have to stick out into the wind when the rack is removed. It would > also allow for more than the 150-165lb load limit currently found. > Michael Daly Mike is correct - it can be done. I bought a Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon (the Subaru Ledgend was the runner-up) because it can carry a load and runs like a scared rabbit when you want it to. Not 4WD, but not a priority for me (I have an Audi A4 for that) MPG and emissions are good, Anyway, as for the roof racks, my previous non-wagon Saabs have had two small reinforced holes UNDER THE WEATHERSTRIP above both doors. You can't even see them, and most owners have no idea they are even there. They sell a Thule rack with towers that have pins which go into the holes. You tighten the rack across the car, pulling th pins tight into the holes - then you close the door. Check it out on Saab's web site in the accessory section if you want to see how it works. This system has NOTHING, nada, zip in the airflow unless you are using it. And rated Maximum roof load is 220 lb. Using the same bars but with towers to fit the factory roof bars on the wagon and a single set J-racks I carried two Cape Horn 14's (55 lbs ea plus some gear inside each) and two bicycles without any extensions. One boat was in the J proper, and the other on edge like a stacker. Bow and stern lines from low stretch 6mm Accessory Cord (8 kilo-newtons) I use to build anchors when climbing ensured that there was good support holding down the ends at speed. Drove like this averaging over 70 mph from Cincinnati to Ft Myers (something like 1000 miles I think) with no issues at all. I don't thing I even had to tighten the lines but once. Of course my fuel ecconomy was down a fair bit. Ususal disclaimer - I'm not connected with Saab in any way (but have owned seven so far.) Regards, Carey *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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