Pardon the trivial posting.... I just wanted to share my joy a little bit. I built a strip built boat. It's the Outer Island designed by Jay Babina of Jason Designs. Here's a link to some webshots pics, although the quality of the pics is very poor. I need to learn how to use the software to get the electronic pics to look as good as the printed ones... http://community.webshots.com/album/123786993cSEwXO The boat is 17'10" long by 20" wide. It is a Greenland style boat, with an Ocean Cockpit and flush hatches. It's fast, tracks great but turns easily and is reported to roll effortlessly (I don't have a roll, yet, so I haven't tried that) Last week, I posted about the power boater who harassed me, then ran up on a Sandbar. The bulk of these pictures were taken about 5 minutes before that incident, so you can see the area in which it took place. Not that that really matters, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Nice boat, Rick! I especially like your low-profile hatch knobs. Thanks, Bill. The "knobs" are actually soft loops of webbing that come up through sealed slots in the hatch - same set-up for attaching the deck rigging to the boat. If during rescues, a person were to be pulled over them or what have you, it would be a non-issue as far as getting hurt on them or them getting in the way of the person being rescued. The hatches are held down from the inside. You pull up on the webbing enough to get your hand underneath the hatch, and then release the shock cord that's pulling down on the hatch. There is also a safety tether in there as well, in case the shock cord breaks while cruising down the highway... don't want to lose a hatch cover :-) I wouldn't have attempted all this without Nick Shades book "The Strip Built Kayak" and his discussion forum attached to the Guillemot web site. They were both invaluable resources. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (including headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] Nice boat, Rick! I especially like your low-profile hatch knobs. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Proud Pappa of a New Strip Built Boat > Pardon the trivial posting.... I just wanted to share my joy a little > bit. I built a strip built boat. It's the Outer Island designed by Jay > Babina of Jason Designs. > > http://community.webshots.com/album/123786993cSEwXO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hey Rick That's beautiful work! How long did it take you? Enjoy! Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> That's beautiful work! How long did it take you? Enjoy! Thank you, and I have three answers for the question. First, it took 17 calendar months, of which 5 saw no activity, and several others saw minimum activity. I had too many interruptions, like hurricane repairs, work, kids activities, etc. Half to 3/4 of the work was done in 3 months - Nov & Dec of 2002, and January of 2003, then I had time issues. Second, it took about 400 hours, which is at least 100 hours too many. I made mistakes that I had to re-do, and sometimes, I'd think about how I was going to do something for 9-1/2 hours, then it would take 30 minutes to actually do it. I KNOW that I can cut 25% of my time out on the next one (a Spring Run that I'll start in June with my oldest daughter) Third, it took 20 years. While in my early twenties, I started talking about how I'd like to one day build a cedar strip boat. At that time, I was strictly talking canoes, but what the heck. Thanks for asking! Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:29 AM 3/9/2004 -0500, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: > > That's beautiful work! How long did it take you? Enjoy! > >Thank you, and I have three answers for the question. > > >Second, it took about 400 hours, which is at least 100 hours too many. Actually, I've heard "400 hours" frequently as an answer to "how long will it take to build a cedar strip kayak". Given that you're not going to build a cedar strip boat in a weekend or two I don't think one can put a figure on how many hours it should take. It's a long process and IMHO trying to speed build a kayak would likely cause a builder to burn out on the building process. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > > At 08:29 AM 3/9/2004 -0500, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: > > > That's beautiful work! How long did it take you? Enjoy! > > > >Thank you, and I have three answers for the question. > > > > > >Second, it took about 400 hours, which is at least 100 hours too many. > > Actually, I've heard "400 hours" frequently as an answer to "how long will > it take to build a cedar strip kayak". > > Given that you're not going to build a cedar strip boat in a weekend or two > I don't think one can put a figure on how many hours it should take. It's > a long process and IMHO trying to speed build a kayak would likely cause a > builder to burn out on the building process. If you want to build quickly, choose a material and building system that builds fast. Plywood kayaks build fast. The last one I built took about 40 hours. The point of building a boat is as much the building as the having of the boat when you are done. Unless you *enjoy* the building method and materials then you are far better off buying a boat instead. Warning, boat building can be very addictive! michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:29 AM 3/9/2004 -0500, Michael Neverdosky wrote: >John Fereira wrote: > > > > At 08:29 AM 3/9/2004 -0500, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: > > > > That's beautiful work! How long did it take you? Enjoy! > > > > > >Thank you, and I have three answers for the question. > > > > > > > > >Second, it took about 400 hours, which is at least 100 hours too many. > > > > Actually, I've heard "400 hours" frequently as an answer to "how long will > > it take to build a cedar strip kayak". > > > > Given that you're not going to build a cedar strip boat in a weekend or two > > I don't think one can put a figure on how many hours it should take. It's > > a long process and IMHO trying to speed build a kayak would likely cause a > > builder to burn out on the building process. > > >If you want to build quickly, choose a material and building system that >builds fast. Plywood kayaks build fast. The last one I built took about >40 hours. I know. I built a Stitch-n-Glue boat before I built my cedar strip kayak. Building an S&G kayak, at least when building from a kit, is much like putting together a large model. >The point of building a boat is as much the building as the having of >the >boat when you are done. Unless you *enjoy* the building method and >materials >then you are far better off buying a boat instead. I'm going to play devils advocate and disagree. There are many reason to build it yourself, only one of which is the enjoyment of the building process itself. Building your own provides a means to build a kayak that is lighter (in general) than a hull of a similar design, though I think some boat building advocates are a bit generous in their claims in weight comparisons. Building your own provides a means to build a kayak for less money than what it would cost to purchase a new boat. Again, there are many factors which will determine final cost and once you add everything up, the savings might not be that significant. Building your own arguably produces a kayak more aesthetically pleasing than what one can buy. However, how much time and effort one puts into building a beautiful boat might be a trade-off with building a boat inexpensively. Building your own allows you to customize the design, appearance, and outfitting to your liking. If you want a 20" wide, 17'10" kayak that will accommodate size 14 feet building your own may be your only option. Building your own allows you to paddle a kayak that may be more historically authentic than what one can buy. Plans which provide replicas of traditional designs are available and one can even build using traditional materials and methods. Anyone that chooses to build their own kayak does so for their own reasons. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> At 08:29 AM 3/9/2004 -0500, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: > > > That's beautiful work! How long did it take you? Enjoy! > > > >Thank you, and I have three answers for the question. > > > > > >Second, it took about 400 hours, which is at least 100 hours too many. > > Actually, I've heard "400 hours" frequently as an answer to "how long will > it take to build a cedar strip kayak". > > Given that you're not going to build a cedar strip boat in a weekend or > two > I don't think one can put a figure on how many hours it should take. It's > a long process and IMHO trying to speed build a kayak would likely cause a > builder to burn out on the building process. That's all pretty true. John "is" a boat builder, and he built the same boat I built, so he knows what I was up against. Before I started, I heard that an acceptable average would be between 300-350, with some builders saying closer to 400. I also heard of some builders who did their first boat in less than 300 hours. I say "100 hours too many" referring more to my rookie mistakes that cost me time, than what is an "acceptable" amount of time. Had I not done some bonehead stuff, I could have saved myself 100 hours, but, I wouldn't have had the learning opportunities that ultimately will make me a better boat builder. So "100 hours too many" really means "I cost myself 100 hours in mistakes". There are lots of variables related to what is a "normal" amount of time. Building hatches take more time than not building hatches. Carving your own seat takes longer than buying a seat, and fancy artistic features in the wood take more time than not doing anything artistic, and many others. So, John is right that it's tough to put a figure on how many hours it should take, but I think I can say that if I don't repeat my mistakes, I can do the next one in 300 hours. The unknown is what new mistakes and learning experiences I'll encounter that I didn't plan for. That said, the next one is for (and with) my 15 year old daughter, and she wants us to strip a dragon into the deck. While I now know "how" to do that, it will still be a tedious process to get it detailed and correct. Regardless, IT'S A HECK OF A LOT OF FUN!!!!!! And, a GREAT sense of satisfaction once it's done. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rick wrote: >>>Regardless, IT'S A HECK OF A LOT OF FUN!!!!!! And, a GREAT sense of >>>satisfaction once it's done. Great piece of work ! And the best part is that you actually get to paddle it. Tom *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:41 PM 3/9/2004 -0700, Tom Yost wrote: >Rick wrote: > > >>>Regardless, IT'S A HECK OF A LOT OF FUN!!!!!! And, a GREAT sense of > >>>satisfaction once it's done. > > >Great piece of work ! And the best part is that you actually get to paddle >it. How very true. As I also built an Ourter Island I know what is in store for Rick. The Outer Island is a joy to paddle John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> If you want to build quickly, choose a material and building system that > builds fast. Plywood kayaks build fast. The last one I built took about > 40 hours. Michael is referring to a method called "Stitch and Glue". Skin-on-frame is also a much faster build than strip built. You can even build your own folder, but those aren't wood. They have aluminum frames. You can even do a "hybrid" - A Stitch and Glue hull with a Stripped deck. All in all, I think that strip built is about the most time consuming method there is. > The point of building a boat is as much the building as the having of > the > boat when you are done. Unless you *enjoy* the building method and > materials > then you are far better off buying a boat instead. ABSOLUTELY! After having been through the process, I would NEVER recommend someone build a strip built boat because they can't afford $2500-$3000 for a new, manufactured glass boat. If you don't love the process and working with wood, it's not worth the effort. You MUST love the process for strip built. I had the tools to mill my own strips, so my building costs were somewhere around $650-$700. If you had to buy a lot of stuff, including milled strips, your costs are going to be much higher, and it's just not worth building for the sake of saving money on a boat (IMHO). > Warning, boat building can be very addictive! YEP! I can see myself building boat after boat after boat, just for the pleasure of it. My boat has only been done a couple of weeks, and I can't wait to start the next one. I have to be careful, though. I don't' want the building to totally replace the paddling. :-) Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:02:18 -0500, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com said: > Skin-on-frame is also a much faster build than strip built. You can > even build your own folder, but those aren't wood. They have aluminum > frames. You can even do a "hybrid" - A Stitch and Glue hull with a > Stripped deck. All in all, I think that strip built is about the most > time consuming method there is. Tom Yost has almost finished a website dedicated to building your own folder. http://yostwerks.com/MainMenuhtml He just emailed me to let me know I could tell people about his site and that he has one duo that built his kids model, Sea Pup, in a paltry 36 hours. Tom's site isn't commercial. He's giving away all of the info including offsets and diagrams for several models (click next - top right of his pages - to get to the offset tables for each model.) Kirk -- Kirk Olsen kork4_at_cluemail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:11:20 -0500, "Kirk Olsen" <kork4_at_cluemail.com> said: > Tom Yost has almost finished a website dedicated to building your own > folder. > > http://yostwerks.com/MainMenuhtml Oops, I lost the . http://yostwerks.com/MainMenu.html -- Kirk Olsen kork4_at_cluemail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:40 PM 3/10/2004 -0500, Kirk Olsen wrote: >On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:11:20 -0500, "Kirk Olsen" <kork4_at_cluemail.com> >said: > > Tom Yost has almost finished a website dedicated to building your own > > folder. > > Mr. Tom Yost, I hate you. Sincerely, John Fereira's Wife John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tom's site needs a period between Menu and html http://yostwerks.com/MainMenu.html John Kirk Olsen wrote: > >Tom Yost has almost finished a website dedicated to building your own >folder. > >http://yostwerks.com/MainMenuhtml > >He just emailed me to let me know I could tell people about his site and >that he has one duo that built his kids model, Sea Pup, in a paltry 36 >hours. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > >If you want to build quickly, choose a material and building system that > >builds fast. Plywood kayaks build fast. The last one I built took about > >40 hours. > > I know. I built a Stitch-n-Glue boat before I built my cedar strip > kayak. Building an S&G kayak, at least when building from a kit, is much > like putting together a large model. Kit? You mean that somebody makes KITS? :-) > >The point of building a boat is as much the building as the having of > >the > >boat when you are done. Unless you *enjoy* the building method and > >materials > >then you are far better off buying a boat instead. > > I'm going to play devils advocate and disagree. Don't you think the Devil has enough lawyers already? :-)( > There are many reason to > build it yourself, only one of which is the enjoyment of the building > process itself. But if you don't enjoy the building then you are probably better off working at something you enjoy more (or dislike less) and spending the money to buy a boat. > Building your own provides a means to build a kayak for less money than > what it would cost to purchase a new boat. Again, there are many factors > which will determine final cost and once you add everything up, the savings > might not be that significant. Less money is true, but only until you place any real value on your time. > Building your own arguably produces a kayak more aesthetically pleasing > than what one can buy. However, how much time and effort one puts into > building a beautiful boat might be a trade-off with building a boat > inexpensively. > > Building your own allows you to customize the design, appearance, and > outfitting to your liking. If you want a 20" wide, 17'10" kayak that will > accommodate size 14 feet building your own may be your only option. > > Building your own allows you to paddle a kayak that may be more > historically authentic than what one can buy. Plans which provide replicas > of traditional designs are available and one can even build using > traditional materials and methods. All of the above reasons can be done by hiring a custom boatbuilder. There are LOTS of boat builders out there who do fantastic work for less money than you might guess. Look in the back of WoodenBoat magazine and call a few builders listed. > Anyone that chooses to build their own kayak does so for their own reasons. True Enjoyment of the building will almost always be one of the reasons. Certainly if they are building a second or third or ??? boat. The pride of having built the boat is also a big one, at least for me. I like when someone asks where they can get a boat like mine. I tell them they can commission me to build them one. Don't ask me how many boats I have build. I don't count them. Some of them are even still in service. :-)) "All boats, at the moment of launch, begin to sink. The harder you work on them, the longer it takes." From an old anon boatbuilder. michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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