Re:[Paddlewise] Skeg Jammers

Doug wrote:
>>>>>You mean you almost forgot to say you sell one of the few sea kayak
lines
that incorporate a sliding seat arrangement, namely Mariner Kayaks. :-) Just
ribbing you Matt.<<<<<

Actually, as far as I know a sliding seat/footbrace unit has always been
unique to Mariner kayaks. Can anyone correct me here?

Peter Treby asked about failures with the sliding seat.
With a few of the very first ones I did, I didn't use heavy enough slide
rails for the seat track and the seat could be torqued out of the soft track
(mostly during rolling practice in a heated pool when the vinyl was softened
some more by the heated water). I feared the weak spot might be the nylon
bolt that slid in the footbrace tracks and for a few years supplied spares
with every kayak sold. My fears were unjustified. In 23 years only about a
half dozen nylon bolts have ever been broken (that I'm aware of). I'm
probably aware of almost all of them since the nylon bolt is not an item
commonly available at the hardware store so I get the call about where to
get them. We shipped them new units free of charge immediately. A few of the
earlier foot pedals we got from other kayak companies eventually work
hardened when used by racers who trained a lot and broke where the aluminum
was stressed at 90 degree bends. I designed the present ones (from 3/16"
extruded angle) because while only a few had failed I didn't want any
failures. I don't recall any of the new foot pedals ever breaking. I also
worried about the glue joint holding the slid tracks to the hull and still
go to what some would say are extreme measures to make sure they stay down
when I install them (and I believe  have personally installed every sliding
seat we have ever made). The only one that failed was one where I was trying
out a new glue, so used it on our new demo. We soon learned not to start
using this glue (Spray 90) due to others experience because it was not
waterproof with long immersion. I forgot about it and sold this demo kayak
several years later and it failed a few years after that. No other track I
put down (all of them in the kayaks we sold) has ever, to my knowledge, come
up over the last 23 years. We had to stop our builder from selling any
sliding seat Mariners (when NWK sold some wholesale in the 1980's) because
some their employees gluing the tracks down so poorly they were coming up in
the showroom. Other companies in the early 1980's tried holding the seat
down in the kayak the same way (but never fastened the seat to the
footpedals). So many were coming up I had to call them up to tell them how
to do it right because their failures with a similar looking system were
reflecting on what we did even though none of ours had ever failed. I was
relieved when other manufacturers dropped this way of holding their seats
down. I understand Eddyline is faced with a similar situation regarding
thermoformed kayak competitors right now.

Peter said about Paul Caffyn:
 >>>>>He reckons a rudder gave him increased daily mileage.<<<<<
It might well have, some kayaks have more need for rudders than others.

However, perception and reality can often be two different things. Until we
get some objective measured results with many different kayaks using both a
rudder and not using a rudder (by paddlers equally competent both ways) we
don't have good data, only opinions. One of the problems is that having to
make course corrections in difficult conditions is a lot more noticeable
than extra drag due to the rudder and dragging it at an angle to make
corrections. Further, all this is very kayak dependant and skill dependant
as well. I know rougher conditions always gave me a big advantage in races.
How much of that was do to skill on my part in rough conditions and how much
was due to not having a rudder (or a kayak that handled them well without) I
can't really tell. A lot of folks will tell you they know something by their
own experience but they don't really. I know John Winters has commented on
this several times in the past.

Peter worried about a stern heavy trim causing lee helming.
This is not likely to be a worry with a heavy camping type gear load (even
if its only an overnight trip) because there is then enough mass in both
ends to not let them get blown around much. Most kayaks weather helm so much
already that it is hard to correct with just a change of trim to the stern.
With kayaks that don't weather helm you probably ought to store the first 10
to 20 pounds in  front of ones feet (if there is a possibility of extreme
winds blowing off shore anyway) but after that the next 40 pounds should go
into the rear so you won't induce weather helm unnecessarily with a bow
heavy trim.
Lifting the kayak to test the balance only works with light loads and/or
strong backs. I'm usually very lightly loaded (day trip) or quite heavily
loaded (overnight and longer trips) there doesn't seem to be much middle
ground.

Matt Broze
www.marinerkayaks.com
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