Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg Jammers etc

Hello Matt:
Now where were we?
" I never divide or weigh the gear. Twice as much is only a goal to shoot
for. I shoot for it by packing every heavy dense bag (and water) that I can
into the stern and then put what won't fit there into the bow..."
One negative with all the heavy gear in the stern is that some heavy gear
will be out at the very stern, offending the aim usually advocated for
maximum
manoevrability, of having heavy gear located in the centre of the boat, and
leaving
the ends light.
I suspect this 2:1 trim may not achieve a good result for fish form kayaks
with thin cross sections in the stern, like a Nordkapp. I am now interested
to try this, or more interesting, induce some of my paddling friends to try
it and see what the trim of their boats might look like, and how they
behave.

> Only in kayaks that float level when empty...You seem to be assuming that
when the centers line up the kayak will be LEVEL.>OF COURSE I have
been assuming that an unladen kayak floated on the water will be trim and
level. It seems to be the case with all sea kayaks with which I am
familiar.<<
[the contrary=] Most Mariner kayaks for several.
I hazard a guess, without data, that Mariner kayaks are at the extreme of
the swede form long bow design, so that my assumption re
empty-boat-level-trim is true
of many sea kayaks, and true enough of most. Anyone on the list have a boat
which is noticeably out of level trim when placed on the water empty?

> In particular, can you name a swede form kayak that requires this? If you
> can, the distance will be so small that it will not have any practical
> effect on the trim method I have described above.Since most kayaks don't
>have a seat you can easily move it is a moot point about getting the
paddlers
>weight over the center of gravity of the kayak anyway
>(with a level trim). With a fixed kayak seat you need to play with the hand
>that the kayak designer dealt you.
Now this is interesting . How many new boats are sold with any
advice as to trim? Your owner's manual contains advice, maybe you are an
exception. Many boats are purchased second hand. How is the kayak owner to
know what the intended trim is,if he or she cannot assume that the unladen
kayak
will float at level trim? Perhaps not many boats are sold with a level.
Perhaps it is not necessary, as
most boats float level unladen, or at least level enough, and close enough
to
suitable trim so that body movement is enough to make the boat work OK.
Are Mariner kayaks in a small minority here?

>why not just bring a small level with you and once you've gotten into the
floating kayak check
> that the kayak is now level (or slightly stern heavy if loaded with gear)
Well, a high percentage of my launches are not onto calm water, and I
do not want to take redundant one-off use gear like a level. How would
the folding chair fit in? I want a practical trimming method, if trim is
important,
that can be used without extra gear. Do you take a level with you every time
you are using a loaded boat?
More level problems: the point where you want to know that the kayak is
level is obstructed by the seat and fittings, making you level it at a point
forward of the seat, at least theoretically not the correct point to measure
level
trim. In practice that is close enough if the keel there runs level. In some
boats,
due to the hull form there may be no suitable point to place the level.

Re the plane-in-a-wind-tunnel-at-45-degrees:
I see that you meant the combination of forces on a free moving kayak, and
not what you said.
>If the wind is blowing such that it hits end "A" first
> that end will have more pressure on it than end "B".
After a brief moment, the wind pressure is equal along the length.

>What kayak do you paddle?
A swede form boat with chines at the stern and a bloated V bow.
Sound familiar?

>When sitting still in a side wind does your kayak blow straight sideways
or slightly bow or stern down wind?
Fairly quickly bow downwind, so that it is balanced in moderate winds at
usual
paddling speeds. I like that.

I am still now intrigued as to a practical method of finding the design trim
of a boat, given that a level assumes the keel line it is placed along is
suitable for
level trim.
What about those boats you decline to name? Will the intended design trim be
uphill towards the bow?
No kayak manufacturer paints a waterline on the boat. Is that the only
really
definitive way to determine ideal trim?
Rambling thoughts, it is late,
Cheers, PT
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