As long as we're on the subject of flares, there was some discussion a while back regarding laser flares. The literature claims they can be seen up to 20 miles away and can last up to 72 hours on a set of batteries. _If_ these perform as well as advertised, it almost seems like they could make other flares nearly obsolete (but on the other hand, what ever works as well as advertised...). Does anyone on the list have experience with these who would care to comment on the efficacy of the laser flares vs other types? They seem to cost around US$100, but if they work well that could be a bargain. Secondly, strobes usually get high marks for attracting attention. The problem I have is that I've only seen two types: The first is the fat red one (I'm not even sure of the brand, except is says "Emergency Strobe" on it and is made in China) that accepts one large D-cell battery, where the flash (when it works) is quite bright, but the quality control seems to be lacking and they can, or perhaps more accurately, _usually_ just stop working all of a sudden. The second type is the skinny type that takes a single AA cell battery. Mine is made by Princeton Tec and the quality control seems much better, but the flash is much less bright. Does anyone have a recommendation for a nice bright _dependable_ stobe? Lastly, would anyone care to rate the various devices in terms of their ability to get attention from a distance? Like let's say you've got a limited budget and just want to get the most bang for the buck, given that sometimes the attention to want to get could be overhead (like from a helicopter) and sometimes from a boat at a distance or in the fog or at night, etc. Obviously the most effective device will depend on the circumstances, but given that you can't always know the circumstances in advance, you've just got to make your best guess. So, we've got: Pencil, 12 guage and parachute flares; Laser flares Smoke bombs Dye marker Strobe lights Mirror reflector Reflective tape Reflective streamers (<-- I forget what these are really called) VHF radio Cell phone EPIRB and probably others I've missed. Whaddya think? From my perspective, I lean towards including all the cheap stuff (smoke, dye, mirror, tape, streamers), plus the strobe and vhf and MAYBE the laser flare. I've generally carried handheld flares, but I'm starting to think these are less effective than some of the other options. Evan Dallas Woodinville Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Not much direct info - two types of strobes on this page: http://www.lcflight.com/flashlights.html I have the strobe/flashlight combo. Hasn't failed yet in a couple of years of testing. Don't particularly like the fact that the flashlight and strobe use the same batts - prefer to have emergency equipment as a stand-alone. I don't use the flashlight routinely - carry an LED light for usual light needs. K *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Wrage" <keith.wrage_at_charter.net> > Not much direct info - two types of strobes on this page: > http://www.lcflight.com/flashlights.html > > I have the strobe/flashlight combo. Hasn't failed yet in a couple of years > of testing. > K I have had the same strobe (strobe only model) for four years. I change the battery every six months & lube the switch once a year with silicone. Works well. That laser mentioned is tempting. Wish I had the money. Perhaps Kirk could buy me one to test for the group. It would be an honor. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ACR makes strobes for the marine environment. Their Fire-Fly and other products are used by many who make their livings on the water. They also make military-issue versions of the firefly that are more suited for SAR situations in combat (IR and blue filter shields for more covert signaling & so your rescuers don't mistake your strobe for weapon muzzle flash...). I have been packing a Greatland Laser rescue Laser Flare in my bailout bag & when I go backpacking or wilderness traipsing. It's not a 'flare' that 'broadcasts' 'all at once' the way a pencil or parachute flare, or even a smoke flare can do...it is used to sweep signal an area or a specific 'target'. Unlike a laser pointer, whose beam stays focused as a 'point', the laser flare expands in an ever widening straight line. Sweeping a passing plane or helo should flash their crews. It can also 'flash' reflective material from great distances. I like mine. It's compact, rugged, and and extra measure of safety. Their website explains function and use quite well. That said, my PFD 'wears' an ACR Sea Strobe, and I often pack a Firefly strobe in my quickly-grabbed gear or in bail bag. There is a firefly version that is water activated and most kayakers would probably want to avoid these, even tho they can be set up to not water-activate. -Will ps. I do not sell these items, make no sales-related claims, etc. Those interested can Google both ACR and Greatland Laser if so inclined. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 5 Jun 2004 at 12:22, Evan Dallas wrote: > The literature claims they can be > seen up to 20 miles away and can last up to 72 hours on a set of > batteries. _If_ these perform as well as advertised, it almost seems > like they could make other flares nearly obsolete They suffer from one serious flaw - flares can be seen from any direction whereas these laser flares (if they are what I'm thinking of http://www.mssltd.com/laser/) have to be pointed at a potential rescuer. They really shouldn't be called flares. > Secondly, strobes usually get high marks for attracting attention. > The problem I have is that I've only seen two types: The first is the > fat red one (I'm not even sure of the brand, except is says "Emergency > Strobe" on it and is made in China) that accepts one large D-cell > battery, where the flash (when it works) is quite bright, but the > quality control seems to be lacking and they can, or perhaps more > accurately, _usually_ just stop working all of a sudden. The second > type is the skinny type that takes a single AA cell battery. Mine is > made by Princeton Tec and the quality control seems much better, but > the flash is much less bright. Does anyone have a recommendation for > a nice bright _dependable_ stobe? I use the PT (with lithium battery) and the other you mention are the only two I've seen. There is an orange version of the red one sold by the folks that sell the C-light (aka see light or sea light). I don't know if it's the same manufacturer. > Pencil, 12 guage and parachute flares; Probably 12 guage are best !/$, but it's a biggish package to carry in a PFD pocket. > Smoke bombs > Dye marker These two are cheap and reliable - except for high wind and high current/confused seas respectively. > Mirror reflector For the price, probably one of the best sunny day items. Nights and cloud make them almost useless (unless the rescuer is shining a light at you. > Reflective tape Put it on the kayak regardless. Ditto on your PFD if it's an older one that doesn't have already. > VHF radio > Cell phone Both are good in certain areas and worthless in others. It all depends on coverage. VHF is better in that everyone can hear, whereas the cell phone limits you to one person. Cell phone is cheaper in the sense that so many already have one. I know that many parts of Georgian Bay have better cell reception than downtown Toronto, so I always bring mine there. > EPIRB $$$ and slow. They'll get to you, but it could take a while, depending on where you are. If you're paddling in the middle of nowhere, they are probably the best solution. > and probably others I've missed. Big international-orange plastic bag. They are easier to find in the US and Britain than in Canada and have handy instructions on them on how to use them for rescue. You can inflate them (with help from the wind) and you have a big flotation aid as well as very visible object. You can get in it for warmth (including an emergency bivi). Stretch it over a pit to make a solar still for drinking water etc. Does everything but walk the dog. Matches in a waterproof container. You could make three little smoky fires if you get to shore. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/5/2004 12:25:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, evand_at_pensionresourcegroup.com writes: > As long as we're on the subject of flares, there was some discussion a > while > back regarding laser flares. The literature claims they can be seen up to > 20 miles away and can last up to 72 hours on a set of batteries. _If_ these > perform as well as advertised, it almost seems like they could make other > flares nearly obsolete (but on the other hand, what ever works as well as > advertised...). Does anyone on the list have experience with these who > would care to comment on the efficacy of the laser flares vs other types? > They seem to cost around US$100, but if they work well that could be a > bargain. > I carry one made by Greatland in a pfd pocket. I left it in there during a 2 day surf class and it is extremely watertight. The batteries are rated to 15 hours. In daylight it is quite bright on axis, off axis it is not. At night it is awesome. This is something that plagues all directional light sources. However, the perception of the person seeing it is of a staccato flash. A flare of any type is omni-directional, and thus one of sufficient candela and height is potentially more visible. What does the person(s) think of the laser signal seen? Does it register as a distress signal at all? The laser signal will never be higher than the height of the swells one paddles in. It columnates light well. Some folks carry flashlights to pinpoint a position for a rescue. The laser serves that function very well. As a signalling device for the kayaker flying into a destination where flares cannot, it adds more value. > Mine is made by Princeton Tec and the quality control seems much > better, but the flash is much less bright. Does anyone have a > recommendation for a nice bright _dependable_ stobe? Mine is a P Tec, too. At night it works well. Too bright and the vertigo effect takes hold. Police officers sometimes train at a firing range where a strobe light is activated to replicate conditions at night where lights are activated and shots fired. I would consider too bright a strobe in rough water to be a possible detriment to staying upright. I do not consider the red R2D2 looking strobe to be too bright, just a bit bulky. > > Lastly, would anyone care to rate the various devices in terms of their > ability to get attention from a distance? Like let's say you've got a > limited budget and just want to get the most bang for the buck, given that > sometimes the attention to want to get could be overhead (like from a > helicopter) and sometimes from a boat at a distance or in the fog or at > night, etc. Obviously the most effective device will depend on the > circumstances, but given that you can't always know the circumstances in > advance, you've just got to make your best guess. So, we've got: > > Pencil, 12 guage and parachute flares; Parachute's are a 10 out of 10; 12 guage are a 5 out of 10; Pencils are a 2 out of 10. I only carry them as a person mounted flare device. > Laser flares As a primary signalling device 2 out of 10. when seen as a signalling device and a homing in device I find them at least a 6. > Smoke bombs Good in daylight. > Dye marker Good in daylight. Would it last long in rough water? > Strobe lights Good at night, in non foggy conditions. > Mirror reflector Good in sunshine. > Reflective tape I need more of this on my boat. > Reflective streamers (<-- I forget what these are really called) Mylar? I've never used them. Could be good for a shore marking position for an evac. > VHF radio 10 out of 10 if it's submersible, charged up and within range of a vessel or a listening station. > Cell phone I was surprised that they worked at Cape Flattery and Shi Shi beach on the Olympic National Park coastline last week. They work in many places in Washington state. > EPIRB I don't own one but the size and weight of them is so attractive now I may do so in the future. > Whaddya think? From my perspective, I lean towards including all the cheap > stuff (smoke, dye, mirror, tape, streamers), plus the strobe and vhf and > MAYBE the laser flare. I've generally carried handheld flares, but I'm > starting to think these are less effective than some of the other options. > If I were to choose 3, it would be the VHF, parachute flare and the laser. Just a humble opinion. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi all, Check out <www.equipped.com/rescuelaser.htm> for info on laser flares, and their other pages for really good info on signalling. I have trialed a Greatland Laser Flare and found it took a bit of careful aiming to ensure my observer saw it clearly. I doubt I could be that accurate with my nose just above the water. The observer said it was very bright, and would have been a good homing device, but didn't register as a cry for help in the way that a flare did. A former USAF Para-Rescue Jumper who I have paddled with said that he used to carry a radio, Day-Night flare (see Pains Wessex website), strobe, and a signal mirror, as his means of attracting attention. As PJ's deploy into hostile seas by choice, I followed his recommendations. Re strobes, I have seen them from the air at night a few times, and they stand out like the proverbial. Once I asked an observer on a SAR aircraft what worked for them, and he replied that the thing that stood out most on one search for the crew of a sunken vessel was a floating aluminium ladder! The swimming survivors then fired a para flare, which passed between the engine and the fuselage of the Orion P3. That got their attention. Cheers JKA -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael posted: >> VHF radio >> Cell phone >Both are good in certain areas and worthless in others. It all depends on coverage. VHF is better in that everyone can hear, whereas the cell phone limits you to one person. Cell phone is cheaper in the sense that so many already have one. I know that many parts of Georgian Bay have better cell reception than downtown Toronto, so I always bring mine there.< My old cell phone was crapping out occasionally, so I picked up a new one last week in anticipation of time on the water and in the hills this summer (kayaking, hiking, mountain biking). The store had one Motorola Star-Tac left in analogue only. I don't need the features of a digital cell phone, so got the older analogue design (small flip phone). My old Motorola was very large. The smaller unit should be easier to carry at all times, better battery. I went for the analogue on recommendation, as the loggers and fishers have been buying them up, unhappy with the digital performance in fringe areas. I figured I'd get one while I still could. Anyone else had experience with digital/ analogue differences? Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> (kayaking, hiking, mountain biking). The store had one Motorola Star-Tac > left in analogue only. I don't need the features of a digital cell phone, so > got the older analogue design (small flip phone). My old Motorola was very > large. The smaller unit should be easier to carry at all times, better > battery. I went for the analogue on recommendation, as the loggers and > fishers have been buying them up, unhappy with the digital performance in > fringe areas. I figured I'd get one while I still could. Anyone else had > experience with digital/ analogue differences? I wouldn't tell about The Island, but on the mainland Telus seems to have the best digital coverage. My model is *very* old Nokia ( 4 yrs or so), dual-mode, i.e. it switches by itlself to analogue mode when I'm beyond digital range. It is not a flip model, and I'm not sure, how flip-model work with Aquapack bag. Before that I had a digital-only model. The difference was that it had weaker reception in elevators, undeground parkings etc, and didn't work in fringe areas at all - but this was 4 years ago, fringe has moved farther since then. PS: Re: Flares - how long is their shelf life? Day-Night flare/smoke, fore example, costs USD50 - does it mean an additional annual expense? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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