steve http://mail2web.com/ writes:>> << Matt Broze writes... Not opposite at all. I've got nothing against authorities, as long as.... <<big snip>> >>one must also realize that the same vessel that 'balances' so nicely in the speeds (both wind and paddling) most people paddle at/in may have a tendency to slide out of that balance as the velocities increase. Even to the point where scootching your seat/footbraces doesn't help.<< It helps but like lifting the skeg or turning (or lifting) the rudder it may eventually not be enough to compensate for the forces involved. This is also true of all kayaks once the wind speed and wave effects overwhelm their weathercocking tendency (while it is certainly a constant annoyance in side winds the actual strength of the weathercocking force is relatively small). Going down wind the sterns of the weathercocking kayaks will blow over easier than the non-weathercocking (other things being equal) making broaching in following seas worse to boot. However, things are never really equal, depending on the kayak's design and the wind/wave conditions, some of the least controllable (strong weathercocking) kayaks I've tested were also among the very hardest to turn up into the wind. One has to understand the factors involved and design shapes or systems to overcome handling characteristics you don't like. Our kayaks are specifically designed to turn into higher winds than most others can do (given the same skilled paddler). I used to go out and have fun kayaking in the storms that later got names attached to them. I know what an extreme wind can do and our kayaks are designed so that a skilled paddler can handle those conditions better than most other kayaks of a similar size will. High wind and surf handling are very important to us. How many other kayaks do you know that can back surf in breakers without rear endering. I wouldn't send a novice out in either of those conditions in any kayak though (except in very controlled circumstances) because if you are not skilled your later remark about Japan could be true. Because I got good at these conditions by experimenting and practicing in them I wrote some articles for Sea Kayaker about paddling in high winds and also include detailed tips on how best to deal with them our "Paddling" manual (last half) under "Handling Difficult Conditions" and "Paddling in Extreme Conditions". One might expect that (especially since it is also my livelihood) designing kayaks for extreme conditions might be something I've thought a lot about. And what about reverse? when going backwards how does this nicely balance hull behave? Was it designed to even go backwards? It was designed to easily back up over kelp but not for going long distances in reverse. In fact, Mariner kayaks are not my first choice for a backwards kayak race. One reason is that they have a very strong weather helm in reverse. Of course, I'd stay away from having the rudder or skeg down when going in reverse as well. Everything is a compromise, we traded more weather helm in reverse for little or none going forward. We think this was an excellent trade as we spend 99.9% of our paddling time not going in reverse. I've not paddled with you, maybe you like to spend significant time traveling like a rower looking at where you have been. If so one of ours would not be a kayak I'd recommend for you. Of course, you are most likely still left with a kayak that weathercocks both when going forward and when going in reverse. Actually, I like the strong weather helm in reverse (except for in those backwards races) because after sitting still and ending up relatively broadside to the wind it only takes me about two easy strokes straight backwards and wal-la just like that I'm facing downwind ready to go (or have made 1/2 of my 180 degree turn with minimal effort). Most loose tracking, balanced boats will have a tendency to weathercock and most straight tracking hulls will have a tendency to leecock given the 'extreme' example scheme that Matt describes. I'm not sure what 'extreme' example schemes you are talking about because you didn't list them (and couldn't find them rereading the post you referred to at the beginning.. I'm also not sure what you mean by "balanced" here although I suspect you mean blows straight sideways downwind when not moving forward or backwards rather than balanced while moving across a side wind. If the wind is not extreme then I can agree with only the first sentence because the stiff tracking kayak may well weathercock as well. If you mean "extreme" wind then I can't agree with the first sentence because those kayaks will be held sideways as well once the wind pressure overcomes the strength of the weather cocking tendency (but won't be as difficult to turn as the stiff trackers in any condition). >>In a strong offshore breeze here in Oregon, we say "Call me from Japan!"<< This depends on the paddler's skill and a whole lot of other design factors other than whether the kayak weathercocks in a side wind or not. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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