Re: [Paddlewise] Sailing a Klepper

On Tuesday 20 July 2004 08.30, you wrote:
> > By the way, here's Dal's URL: http://dalstanley.tripod.com/folbot.htm
>
> I read his site a long time ago, - as I recall, his total sails area is
> quite impressive.  May be even larger than in S4 (double Klepper rig), and
> sure larger than in S1.  I wonder how fast such a boat would go with only
> one mainsail, or mainsail + jib, and two people.  Wouldn't expect much,
> particularly upwind. 

Hi Alex,

Interesting comments!

We didn't do terribly well upwind the first time we tried either so eventually
my wife paddled and steered and I handled the sheets :-)! 

>  I'm a bit disappointed in upwind handling of loaded
> (few-days cargo) 17ft hardshell and 15 ft folder (both 25" wide) with 32
> sq.ft Balogh rig (2.9 sq.m.).  In both boats I've installed the mast aft
> (something that yachtsmen can't understand :-), because chances to get a
> wind  between Vancouver Island and mainland are about 50% at best. Another
> 50% of time I have to paddle (that's why the mast is aft). It is also much
> warmer to paddle than sail in most of BC summer time :-). At the most
> optimistic side I would estimate upwind sailing of both boats about 60-65
> degrees to upwind without much beam waves, unloaded, without even a
> sleeping bag (considering straight headwind = 0 deg).

Think we would have bettered that, but I did find out that with the S4 rig and
a heavier person up front it did bury its nose in the waves a bit - will try 
with two masts soon, and a narrow sprit sail inbetween - easier to pack away. 
Possibly cut down the main a little bit, too!

> When loaded and with beam or head waves it becomes about 10-20 degrees -
> little benefit compared to paddling. Yesterday I've got into combination of
> headwind and head tidal current, and couldn't make any upwind - only
> crosswind with some drift down the current (resulting course was equivalent
> to 10-15 deg downwind). But it would be much harder to paddle same course,
> after I stupidly tried to fight the current and headwind , paddling for two
> hours, with sail lowered. Paddling a kayak with a double-arm outrigger is
> about 50% less effective than without it, even if crossbar and leeboard
> dosn't get into way like in my case. Add any cargo, waves and current, and
> you get zero upwind paddling of such a trimaran. I suspect that this year
> with record low tides in coastal BC currents are stronger.

  We'll probably restrict ourselves to one easily detachable leeboard, but 
only time can tell if that will work.

> You are right in your observation, - women often enjoy sailing more than
> paddling, if they can compare and choose. I can understand them.

   Oh, you got me wrong: She loves paddling (both canoe and kayak) and now 
sailing, but hates travelling in motorboats!

> Open cockpit of Klepper allows for "hiking out", or at least sitting on
> board, but of course with a tiller instead of pedals.  Operating pedals,
> going downwind for hours with only one pedal pressed all the time, is
> tiresome.  Not to mention inability to stand up or change your position for
> a while.

  A hike board is coming from my design studio as soon as I can manage,
as is a left-hand tiller :-)! 
>
> > 20 x 20 mm aluminium tube (6063) would do as the arm that the outrigger
> > attches to and the arm itself I clamped to the leeboard crossbar with
> > Klepper-style J-clamps
>
> If it is a round 20mm tube, 6 ft long at each board, length of Balogh
> crossbar), it is too thin. It should be about 35 mm thick (1.5"). Square
> one must be stronger, but less aerodinamically efective. There could be
> other reasons why crossbars in such rigs and catamarans are mostly
> round-section tubes.

It is a square tube, but I will reinfoce the inner end as soon as the 
definitive design is ready. So I think my 20 mm square tube will be OK!
>
> > Sadly I forgot to turn the GPS on, but I'm pretty certain that we went
> > supersonic at times :-)!
>
> That's what big guys on yachts have been asking me (quite agressively :-)
> all the time.  Then I've bought a GPS and measured - it is about 8 or 10
> knots *downwind* (13-16 km/h) at best with such a configuration. 2-4 times
> less on close upwind course (but crosswind sailing can be pretty fast).  I
> would say, when I make10 knots downwind, it is already too cold (BC isn't
> Florida), and too scary - if one arm or float of outrigger fails, capsize
> is 100% guaranteed.  

We found a single float actually a bonus in many ways: It doesn't make our 
craft so wide as a trimaran set-up, thus easier to handle close to the shore,
and it is very educational to try to keep it just out of the water all the 
time.

Speedwise I would agree with your test runs: It felt like three-four times 
faster than normal paddling, and we did use our GPS to confirm our speed 
while paddling around Skye: we did about 3.5 knots then, at the very best,
on a long distance :-)!

> My floats are inflatable, so they can fail. You can
> sail with only one outrigger, and more effectively than with a double one,
> but this needs more readiness and cooperation of both sailors - and, of
> course, a tiller.  It needs warmer waters too :-).

We had about 18 deg C water at the time. My single float can't sink and
is so close to indestructible as it can be - a shotgun or sharp axe is needed 
to destroy it! The aluminium tube can break, so we'll have a safety line 
forward to the bow of the kayak next time out, offloads it a bit!

Tord

PS The S4 sail area is 5 sq meters (about 50 sq. ft).
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