Matt: > When I wrote this originally I only suspected > by his badgering, setting up a straw man to attack, asking essentially the > same question over and over again, and skillfully twisting what I had > previously written,... What I have been trying to do is stick to the point: I think limiting the forward range of movement of a sliding seat is a good idea. I will take only take this discussion further if you answer my last post, and put it clearly on Paddlewise before I respond so that the thread is (as far as possible!) understandable. PT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have a very firm rule that I do not engage in polemics. In this case, however, the injury to one of the parties by the other is so extreme and so out of line, I must comment: So far, those of us in the peanut gallery here on Paddlewise have only seen ONE unsubstantiated description of the sliding seat system in a Mariner, which apparently is unconfirmed. Based on that meager bit of evidence that the system has a problem, what basis is there for the polemic I see launched on Matt Broze? Matt has a very solid reputation amongst sea kayakers in this part of the world, with many contributions to the craft, especially in the realm of safe practices. That reputation should count for something ... and certainly should motivate an attacker to holster his weapon and search for a good and true description of the facts before attacking a person's livelihood and reputation. As far as Mr. Treby's claim that he is "trying [to do is] stick to the point: I think limiting the forward range of movement of a sliding seat is a good idea," the lie in that statement is obvious in the initial comments made about Matt's alleged liability exposure. (Wish I had saved that post.) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Treby" <ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au> To: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net>; "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sliding seats, issues, failure or whatever > Matt: > > When I wrote this originally I only suspected > > by his badgering, setting up a straw man to attack, asking essentially the > > same question over and over again, and skillfully twisting what I had > > previously written,... > What I have been trying to do is stick to the point: I think limiting the > forward range of movement of a sliding seat is a good idea. > I will take only take this discussion further if you answer my last post, > and put it clearly on Paddlewise before I respond so that the thread is (as > far as possible!) understandable. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger "I have a very firm rule that I do not engage in polemics. In this case, however, the injury to one of the parties by the other is so extreme and so out of line, I must comment:" Well Dave, you haven't expressed any opinion on the issue of sliding seat restraint, so you are rising to Matt's defence for some other reason. I think he's perfectly capable of defending himself. I haven't made any general comments attacking Matt, or Mariner kayaks, I have just looked at his recommendation to restrain the sliding seat in "extreme" conditions, and asked why a restrainer shouldn't always be fitted. You might think Matt's history of safety writing, designing cutting edge kayaks, involvement in sea kayaking otherwise makes him and Mariner kayaks proof against any comment or question. I think for those very reasons, he might be receptive to constructive comments. I would guess he is not about to rename his operation "Sacred Cow Sea Kayaks". You are entirely mistaken in this insulting post. Do not mistake vigorous and persistent, for malicious. Doug Lloyd "As far as this whole sliding seat/entrapment issue, I think Peter was originally objective enough (and bold enough) to question some of your outfitting practices. Heck, good objective, non mendaciously reply-twisted inquiry and likeminded response is a favoured venue for enlightenment on this list, so I hope you guys tone it down for the rest of us who learn through these exchanges and appreciate true honestly as a life principle." Thank you Doug. That is the spirit in which my comments were intended. "The Badger" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'd have to agree with Peter here. Seems as tho a movement range inhibitor would be a safety improvement to the 'system'. The time I saw the slider fail it was on a trainer's boat during an SK instructor training session up on Vancouver Is. where I was a student, so it was a while ago. This 'system' has been in production for a while and seems to have has room for improvement, especially when safety is concerned. BTW, this is NOT the only time I have heard of the seat movement as an issue with sliding-seat Mariner paddlers. steve Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe N 45: 36.285' 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122: 39.841' Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Seems as tho a movement range inhibitor would be a safety improvement to the 'system'. " Thanks for saying so Steve, I was feeling a little lonely! Just grazed your site www.aldercreek.com, and from there to John Walpole's site: http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~walpole/kayaking.html He has some great images of sea kayaking, this website is well worth a visit. Cheers, PT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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