Matt said (huge snip): >According to someone on this list, Steve has developed or provides a skeg clearing tool made from a butter knife (if I'm recalling correctly). Therefore, isn't that good evidence he is well aware that skegs on his kayaks can jam. How can he sell a kayak, in good conscience, where the skeg might jam (or with someone else we could use--the rudder might break) and make that kayak more difficult to control as a result.< Isn't this approximately where the thread got started? :-) (Hey Matt, congratulations on the longest subject line I think I've ever seen; just shows how passionate you are about these things, and how strongly you feel about defending your product development, which we all know you have thought through thoroughly over the years -- so, all good stuff). Interestingly, we had a real problem on our Nootka Sound trip with one boat in particular (a large British heavy with the new skeg-slide control). While the older bungee corded "spring-loaded" systems clogs with grit and sand as much as the newer cable-activated push systems (as far as the fin in the box area is concerned), the newer system proved much more fussy to field repair (twice on this trip). Also interestingly, the owner of the boat in question (who doesn't mind this being mentioned) was very concerned about returning to the Sound from the outside as lack of a working skeg would mean this particular kayak design would become almost unmanageable. Scott first mentioned this to the list and me back at the start of the thread, now I understand what he was highlighting. Funnily enough, the guy in the Mariner II just laughed, slid his seat a bit, leaned down-slope, and shot off on every wind wave. I've never seen the Mariner II in a seaway, so was very impressed. The only other boat I saw on the trip (different group) was an Nigel Dennis Explorer _with no skeg_, similar to the Chris Duff setup, where no mechanical devices/lack of storage issues hinder coastal wilderness travel. Apparently, the boat can be paddled well enough without the skeg, which I tried in some afternoon rough water (a skegged model, undeployed). I didn't get to try the Mariner II, but from what I could gather, the only issue was the guy had to back-paddle so everyone could catch up with him. :-) As far as this whole sliding seat/entrapment issue, I think Peter was originally objective enough (and bold enough) to question some of your outfitting practices. Heck, good objective, non mendaciously reply-twisted inquiry and likeminded response is a favoured venue for enlightenment on this list, so I hope you guys tone it down for the rest of us who learn through these exchanges and appreciate true honestly as a life principle. In terms of entrapment, I came across no accounts of sliding-seat dangers within the context of my own investigation and information forwarded to SK Magazine and subsequently forwarded to you originally. I did have my own experience with entrapment due to submarining inside my cockpit (it was foamed out tightly, the bulkhead way back, and the foot rest mount failed. I certainly did not go up to my armpits, even if I was (am) short). I think Steve's use of the term was more hyperbole than factual statement making, though I'm sure there may have been some manner of slipping too far into the cockpit, but we are talking about to what degree here, and there has been no confirmation or denial, or direct first hand reporting. >From what I observed with the Mariner II was that the front bow was so well designed, I highly doubt there would be much submerging and subsequent cartwheeling like it did with my Nordkapp. About the only issue I saw with the Mariner II was achieving the correct load/trim levels to achieve a neutral position from whence to start adjusting to changing see conditions. My impression was that the Mariner II in anything over a two foot chop and wind from the stern quarter still needs a good, proactive paddler, or as you state elsewhere, "a few good men" or something like that, but the resultant ride well worth it. I if trip around with the same guys again and we get some rougher conditions, I'll definitely ask the paddler if I can borrow the Mariner II to try out in some of the rougher stuff where these issues are more noteworthy in their relevance. Respectfully, Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From what I observed with the Mariner II was that the front bow was so well designed, I highly doubt there would be much submerging and subsequent cartwheeling like it did with my Nordkapp.< Just a little side note here, for whatever it's worth. A few years back I had the opportunity to take a Mariner Coaster out in the surf. For whatever reason, we do not see a lot of Mariner boats here in sunny Southern California. I was told that the boat would not pearl (burry it's bow). Skeptical, I took it out in about four to six foot surf and attempted to drop straight down off the face of every wave and sink that bow. I was amazed as I couldn't do it. Every time I thought that I was for sure going to bury the bow, at the last second it would pop right back up again and the boat would shoot forward on the wave. It was a whole lot of fun! Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Apparently that's usually the case, but Duane reported and unintended ender by a Coaster at the last BCU symposium in NorCal. Steve Brown ...... I was told that the boat would not pearl (burry it's bow). Skeptical, I took it out in about four to six foot surf and attempted to drop straight down off the face of every wave and sink that bow. I was amazed as I couldn't do it. ...... Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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