Re: [Paddlewise] Nadgee, Max, boat copying

Response to Matt Broze posting dated 18/8/2004.

It appears from your last post that the problem between us is fundamental: you
do not believe that anyone other than you can make a kayak of the same
"family" or general boat shape as a Mariner.

If you design something and put it into the marketplace, you have whatever
legal protection is available. Beyond that, you can't really complain if
similar articles derived from yours are made.

You recognized earlier that there is no theft in a legal sense. Strictly
speaking, theft only exists in a legal sense, and any careless accusation of
theft when you mean copying, or similar design, is mistaken.

John Winters set out a checklist of dimensions to check for copies. Do you
agree with those? Do you agree that outside small, 1-2% tolerances for the
building errors of a copy, the hull will not be a copy?

You agree that the Nadgee not identical to the Max. It is longer and narrower
than the Max, (outside the Winters tolerances) and its performance on your
consistent and reliable tests is very different from the Max. You know that
the deck, cockpit and fitout are entirely different from the Max.

The fact that you believed 9 years ago that Max lines were being used, is
relevant to whether your present outraged attitude seems justified or not.
>From this side of the long crossing problem known as the Pacific Ocean, you
allowed the impression, by making no objection, that there was no objection.
When you say that there are many similar reports that reach your ears, this
underscores what I am saying: once the genie is out of the bottle, he won't go
back in. Once the idea is out that a working rudderless boat can be made with
convex V bow sections, chines, and keel line at the stern half, why wouldn't
you expect similar boats to come along?

You mention that your boats are expensive and time consuming to get to
Australia. This is a problem with Brit boats as well, and will probably make
sure local boat makers have a market for a long time to come, unless Chinese
imitations remove the labour component. A new Nordkapp (UK, not NZ) costs
about $5,500 in Australia. A locally made Mirage 530 might be around $3,000.

"You are right there was no law at the time to prevent this [i.e. to prevent
your version of the Nadgee creation process]". The law is a little complex, of
course. In Australia, a boat designer who wants legal protection should
register under the Designs Act. If that isn't done, little chance to complain.
If it is done, you must have the resources to defend your registered design
against copiers. In practice, that has to be worthwhile commercially.

Do you have a picture, website or contact details for the Svalbard kayak?

"I know what changes were made. It is not an identical kayak. There is no
debate from here about that. The point is he did not start the process from
scratch but took our well proven design and made a few simple modifications
and called it his own."

Here again we have the essence of our disagreement. I don't find it offensive
that every kayak is not designed from scratch. Kayak designers such as
yourself might regard those without engineering or naval architecture
backgrounds as lesser beings, but I don't. As a kayak user, the end product
counts. If no illegality is involved, I am not the end recipient of a flawed
process.

"Where do you get that I heard this several times?" From you. A visit in 1996,
an email from the visitor, an Australian competitor offering negative
advertising.

I am not going to go through the rest of your post and pick up the numerous
other points with which I disagree.

Would you object if I took the hydrostatic information published about a
Mariner kayak, and designed a sea kayak which had similar (within 1%, say)
hydrostatics, and the general look of a Mariner. In other words, is your
objection to photocopied blow-up cross sections, or to anyone making a Mariner
style boat? It sounds like the latter.



Cheers, PT



PS.

Q. What's the difference between a sea kayaking lawyer with a good cause, and
a pit bull terrier lunching on your leg?

A. The pit-bull eventually lets go.
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