Morning John, I'm claiming they're all lift oriented forward strokes, even with a euro blade. It's just that the shape of the euro blade delays stall at higher AOA and provides more lift at AOA beyond stall so they're not as fussy. Check out these wingtip vortices: http://www.geocities.com/jefferyjg/wake.html They are only created (in any size), by wings lifting at high AOA, such as during takeoff or steep turns. The little swirl paddler leave behind on either side of their boat (visible on a calm day) look suspiciously similar except rotated 90 degrees. By trial and error I learned which stroke gave the best pull with the GL paddle, same as I learned how to successfully do a sculling brace. After reading the sea kayaker article I mentioned a few posts ago, I learned the reason behind it. That article showed clearly how the shape of a euro paddle or especially a wing paddle helped keep water moving parallel to the blade face, but that with the Greenland paddle, the paddler had to supply the motion to do that. I'm definitely not saying that I was out paddling with my GL and paddle and suddenly realized my blade was stalling. What I am saying is that through trial and error I did learn how to generate the most pull (the feedback mechanism). Once this was learned, it became "automatic" and no longer required thought. Effectively, I had learned to continuously adjust AOA to avoid stall (or deep stall) without knowing it. I suppose the degree of success in doing this is at least one element that determines a person's forward stoke efficiency. Trying to explain, or prove how I did that is like trying to explain how I learned to catch a fly ball (usually). It is evident that I did, but explaining it with any accuracy would require a million lines of computer code. The reason for this example is not to imply that effective paddling is about the eye / hand / leg coordination required for catching a fly ball, but that the human brain is capable of solving very sophisticated problems which defy simple explanation or proof. Anyway, it seems like we are about 1" apart in our positions, but that we would each wear out our keyboards trying to close that gap - without success. One thing I am wondering, is whether the fussiness of the GL paddle (which we agree on) is integral to it's easiness on the body, or if it's the small submerged blade area during a cruising stroke, or both. I don't know if there are any extreme high aspect ratio paddles out there with curved asymmetrical blades? If so, it would be interesting to see if they retain the same benefits on the body for cruising, even though they would not retain the GL paddles benefits for sculling. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- ...... My point exactly but without the optimism. Keep in mind that paddlers using GP paddles and a drag oriented stroke can, at cruising speeds at least, keep up with other GP using paddlers supposedly using lift oriented strokes. How do you tell what part of the stroke is stall or lift if the resultant thrust remains the same or similar? ..... Most know that GP paddles can stall . I asked if you could prove that you could both recognize it during the stroke and make the appropriate adjustments to the angle of attack to stop the stall which hasn't been forthcoming. Your answer didn't help much. John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************Received on Fri Sep 10 2004 - 07:17:57 PDT
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:31:17 PDT