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From: Chuck Holst <cholst_at_bitstream.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] objective paddle test
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:37:51 -0500
I just conducted a thought experiment. I sat in my kayak and moved my 
paddle back and forth as vigorously as possible,  sending my O2 intake and 
my heart rate way up, yet I didn't go anywhere. Does this mean I have a 
poorly designed paddle, a poorly designed kayak, or a very poor paddling 
style? Even if you could measure a consistent output and speed, how could 
you be sure of a consistent style?

Chuck Holst

-----Original Message-----
From:	Michael Daly [SMTP:mikedaly_at_magma.ca]
Sent:	Monday, September 20, 2004 3:49 PM
To:	PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net
Subject:	Re: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] objective paddle test

On 20 Sep 2004 at 10:05, Peter Chopelas wrote:

> PC: this is true, but it would take more costly equipment, a simple
> heart monitor paddled over a longer steady state corse would yeild a
> relative comparison that would be useful.

This is true - cheap and dirty O2 uptake tests are simply time over
distance tests that are calibrated for weight etc.  You
run/cycle/whatever for a given time, measure the distance (or vice
versa) and look up a table of O2 uptakes required to do that for
typical people of a given weight and such.

However, the question is then whether the errors in this kind of test
are sufficiently small to differentiate between two paddles.  If
tests results for the HRM vary by 5% and the paddles differ by 3%,
you won't see anything reliable.

HR vs O2 uptake can be thrown off easily by things like CO saturation
level - if you hang out in a smoky bar the night before the test,
you'll pump more blood per unit O2 than if you stay out in the fresh
air.  Ditto if you spend several weeks vacation hiking high up in the
mountains and then perform the test at sea level - you'll pump less
blood per unit O2.

> You do not need any of this information to make a valid comparison.
> the same hull, at the same gross weight, at the same speed will take
> the same amount of power to push it though the water (presuming wind
> and currents are not a factor).

The key then is to oblige the paddler to a paddle at a specific
speed.  It would be wise to choose a speed that is not too high, so
that it can be achieved with a wide range of paddles.

Mike
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From: Greg Dunlap <blackey_at_sonic.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] objective paddle test
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:10:07 -0700
Chuck

First of all put your boat in the water, then  make sure your paddle 
contacts the water.  Do these two things and you will get a different 
reaction to judge by'

Chuck Holst wrote:

>I just conducted a thought experiment. I sat in my kayak and moved my 
>paddle back and forth as vigorously as possible,  sending my O2 intake and 
>my heart rate way up, yet I didn't go anywhere. Does this mean I have a 
>poorly designed paddle, a poorly designed kayak, or a very poor paddling 
>style? Even if you could measure a consistent output and speed, how could 
>you be sure of a consistent style?
>
>Chuck Holst
>
>  
>
 

Greg Dunlap 
Santa Rosa, CA
380 28' 40.27" N 1220 45' 16.05" W 157 feet above sea level
blackey_at_sonic.net

This has been scanned with Norton's 2004 for your protection 
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From: Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] objective paddle test
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:08:33 -0400
On 20 Sep 2004 at 21:37, Chuck Holst wrote:

> I just conducted a thought experiment. I sat in my kayak and moved my
> paddle back and forth as vigorously as possible,  sending my O2 intake
> and my heart rate way up, yet I didn't go anywhere. Does this mean I
> have a poorly designed paddle, a poorly designed kayak, or a very poor
> paddling style? Even if you could measure a consistent output and
> speed, how could you be sure of a consistent style?

Both John and you have raised the same objection.  It's perfectly 
valid.

I mentioned in a previous post that based on my own training diary, I 
know that consistency is not something you can achieve.  My thought 
experiment would conclude that you are more likely to measure the 
variation in paddler performance more than the variation in paddle 
performance.  The main reason: I don't think that some paddles differ 
enough to measure compared to the paddler.

Unless you could measure enough to factor out these variables in 
paddler performance, testing in this manner will only be useful in a 
very crude comparison of significantly different paddles.  

Mike
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