Ken Rasmussen kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net www.kayakfit.com subject: Greenland Paddle,Toksook feather angle, and sculling with wooden paddles I come from a cycling background, and when someone first handed me a kayak paddle about 15 years ago, my response was, "This is a single speed bicycle stuck in high gear!!" I immediately switched to a shorter paddle, and then to a shorter paddle again, and then to an even shorter paddle. I had to cut the blade down a bit to get clearance for the gunwale of the kayak--I basically changed the blade from asymmetrical to symmetrical. At the same time, my cadence increased markedly. Another way to reduce stress and increase cadence is to reduce the blade size. This decreases the efficiency of propulsion, but reduces strain. The most remarkable demonstration I've ever seen of the principle was by a friend of mine who made the ultimate low stress paddle. It was amazingly short, amazingly small (the blades were the size of bread slices), and had a bend like a marathon canoe paddle. I tried it, and it felt broken, like there was nothing there. Three of us were paddling up a small river, into a stiff headwind. Naturally the fellow with the ridiculous paddle was last. As time went on he drew even with us, then he passed us, then he went out of sight ahead of us. He wasn't getting any faster. We just got progressively slower from fatigue. He was doing such easy work that he wasn't fatiguing very quickly. I tried a roll with his silly paddle, and it worked, but I wouldn't have cared to take it out in perilous conditions. Paddle lengths have been decreasing, but people are still buying them too long. It goes with a very lethargic "slump back and paddle slow style", or with a macho "pull really hard on the paddle" mentality. Racers use around 225 cm and paddle really fast. To me 225 can't be paddled very fast for very long--it too is a big gear, but it is fine for those who have developed the strength to use it. So why are recreational paddlers able to manage 230 and 240 centimeter paddles? They aren't managing. In a headwind they are pathetic. It is no wonder people are moving to Greenland Paddles. You've got to find a way out of high gear!! Regarding feather, I don't think you can paddle 90 degree feather without cocking the wrist. That is the reason why 75, 60, and 45 degree paddles came into existence. For me, 57 to 60 degrees of feather results in exactly the correct attitude of the non-control hand blade when I merely raise my control hand. On the control hand side I'm holding the paddle so that it is at the correct attitude as it enters the water with a straight wrist. I use very short paddles with a very high angle stroke. A different length of paddle and a different style of stroke might affect the choice of feather angle. For me, the only way to paddle with a straight wrist is to use a feathered paddle with 57 to 60 degrees of feather. Greater and lesser feather angles require accommodation with the wrists. I'm very interested to hear about the Toksook paddle, and hope to try one soon. I know Greenland paddles have marvelous characteristics for sculling and rolling, but no one has answered my original question about Euro style wooden paddles that are particularly good for the sculling brace and for the sweep roll? Which work best? Is a longer, narrower blade like the Toksook willow leaf shape best, or is a shorter broader blade better? Does an airplane wing cross sectional shape result in superior lift as compared to a lentil (seen edgo on) shape, or a Toksook double dihedral? I've been trying as many wooden paddles as I can, and the differences are huge, but I haven't got enough data to draw conclusions yet. What are your observations? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:47 PM 9/3/2004 -0700, Kathea Rasmussen wrote: >Ken Rasmussen >kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net >www.kayakfit.com > >subject: Greenland Paddle,Toksook feather angle, and sculling with wooden >paddles > > Regarding feather, I don't think you can paddle 90 degree feather without >cocking the wrist. That is the reason why 75, 60, and 45 degree paddles came >into existence. For me, 57 to 60 degrees of feather results in exactly the >correct attitude of the non-control hand blade when I merely raise my control >hand. On the control hand side I'm holding the paddle so that it is at the >correct attitude as it enters the water with a straight wrist. About 5 years ago I took a class with Derek Hutchinson and listened to his speech about his 90 degree feather Toksook and wrist problems and such. Despite what some people think of him, what he said made a lot of sense to me. Perhaps you can't with a 90 degree feather without some cocking of the wrist, but to paraphrase what he was saying, it's not the paddle that causes the wrist problem, it's repeatedly bending the wrist to the maximum range of motion. The key point is the bending of the wrist to the maximum range of motion, and doing so repeatedly. Dropping the elbow and bring the control hand to your should will reduce the amount of bend in your wrist whether you're using a 90, 60, or 45 degreed feathered paddle. I can't believe that a small amount of bend in the wrist with each stroke is going to cause problems. That's what wrists do. I would imagine that if one paddle with completely straight wrists all the time it's going to put a more strain on the elbow joint because it would need to bend more to set the correct paddle angle. It was seem to me that a little bend in the wrist and a bit more bend in the elbow would put the least amount of strain on both joints. Something else that is rarely mentioned, though I often do when teaching beginners is keeping the wrists from bending sideways. When beginners first pick up a paddle the width of their hands on the shaft often varies. Typically people use the "put the shaft on your head" and hold your hands "about shoulder length apart". I just have them grab the paddle and look at their wrists. If their hands are two close then their wrists are bent in toward each other. Hold the paddle with your wrists lined up straight with your forearm and the paddle is gripped in the right place. John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 4 Sep 2004 at 12:06, John Fereira wrote: > Perhaps you can't with a 90 degree feather without > some cocking of the wrist, but to paraphrase what he was saying, it's > not the paddle that causes the wrist problem, it's repeatedly bending > the wrist to the maximum range of motion. The key point is the > bending of the wrist to the maximum range of motion, and doing so > repeatedly. I'll respectfully disagree. From personal experience, you can aggravate your wrist joint with repeated flexure less than the maximum. Hence, if I use my arm/elbow/shoulder etc to control the paddle and not the wrist, the feather that I can handle is about 50- 60 degrees with a high stroke and about half that with a low stroke. I think the difference is whether you've already got a problem or not. If you have a problem before paddling, flexure less than the max will aggravate it. If you don't, a large range of motion is more likely to cause it. I've seen Hutchison's presentation on paddles and he certainly believes what he says. That doesn't mean he's not full of hot air, though. Part of his problem is that he speaks from his experience and not from the experience of others. > Hold the > paddle with your wrists lined up straight with your forearm and the > paddle is gripped in the right place. This tends to put the hands closer together than is comfortable for many paddlers using a Euro paddle. This can also be achieved with a bent shaft without changing the grip spacing. I prefer the bent shaft solution. A Greenland paddle can avoid both these problems - the latter because the close grip position keeps the wrist straight. Feathering problems are alleviated since your fingers, rather than your wrists, make the small corrections for blade entry angle. But the GP does give me a sore thumb sometimes. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Paddle lengths have been decreasing, but people are still buying them too > long. I paddle with a 230 cm, 65 degree feather Sawyer Sea Feather. For those not familar this is a wooden paddle with a long asymetrical blade. I have paddled shorter paddles and always come back to the longer lengths (sometimes I use a 240cm) Here is why. After several thousands miles of paddling I have developed a very effficent stroke. (On a trip with Ed Gillet I ask him, to critique my style and he verified that I had a good stroke) When I paddle I push with my top arm and sholders as much or more than I pull with my bottom arm. With a paddle 230 -240 cm in length at the end of the stroke my top arm is extended and my hand is slightly below eye level and the blade is at a 45 degree angle as I begin to pull it out of the water. With a paddle shorter than 230 cm when I push with my top arm and rotate my shoulder my top hand has to drop down significantly otherwise the blade goes beyond 45 degrees and at that point all I am doing is to "lift water". The problem with droping my hand is that I lose power as I do. Try doing a push up with your hands at your waist rather than your shoulders to see my point. Also with the longer paddle my blade enters the water in front of me and I pull it out just behind my waist. I have seen people with shorter paddles and without an going to an extreme effort they tend to put their paddle in at their waist and pull them out well behind their hips. As far as my choice of a wooden paddle, I paddle year round here in Alaska and wooden paddles are warmer on the hands. Also for me the wooden paddles have a softer feel which on long trips is more careful. I have not had the opportunity to try a greenland style paddle and looking at them I wonder how well you can brace with one. Especially on a surf landing where broached on a wave you need a paddle that can hold a brace for a long time while being tossed about quite a bit. Just my thoughts Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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