I think I need to re-phrase my question. If you entered a kayak boutique and saw a rack of paddles what physical characteristics would you look for to distinguish a Greenland paddle from a Euro paddle. For example, would you look for a specific range of length to width ratios or a specific range of blade shapes, or a specific range of lengths? How the paddle behaves is another question for another time. What I am looking for is, How do you recognize a Greenland or Euro paddle when you see one? Many thanks to those who have already responded. Very helpful stuff. Cheers John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/7/2004 1:39:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jdwinters_at_eastlink.ca writes: > If you entered a kayak boutique and saw a rack of paddles what physical > characteristics would you look for to distinguish a Greenland paddle from a > Euro paddle. A long, slender blade shaped similar to a airplane prop or popsicle stick would tell me it was a greenland like paddle. A pole with a shovel mounted on each end would suggest modern European origins, though, I know indigenous folks from Oceania to the Congo used single shovels attached to a pole to propel their outriggers, canoes or dugouts. Recent European designs now sport longer blades called wings, though they look less like wings of airplanes than they do trenching shovels. Alas, these trenching devices, be they round or longer in form, weigh quite a bit less than the garden variety found at hardware stores. > > For example, would you look for a specific range of length to width ratios > or a specific range of blade shapes, or a specific range of lengths? How the > > paddle behaves is another question for another time. I would say that the range of blade shapes evolving from a shovel, spoon, trowel, etc., would be my indicator, not necessarily the lengths offered. > > What I am looking for is, How do you recognize a Greenland or Euro paddle > when you see one? > Quite honestly, as my sophistication increases on the subject of kay-ackin', I would say that the more writing on the blade tends to be from so called European designs; whereas, the popsicle stick designs have a whole lot less writin'. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I guess I would define a Greenland paddle by the dimensions I would use to make one: LOA: An armspan and a cubit. Alternately from the ground to the wrist or fingertips of the standing paddler. There is actually a great deal of variability in this dimension, from 180-cm "storm" paddles to 220-cm or longer "standard" Greenland paddles. Mine is about 218 cm. Length of loom: Varies from as little as two to three fists for a storm paddle, which is used only with a sliding stroke, to about shoulder width plus two to four fists for a standard GP. Paddles with shorter looms are typically used more with the partial sliding stroke. I once tried measuring the ratio of the loom to the total length from photos and drawings of traditional GPs and got a result of about 25% to 30%. Width of blade at tip: No more than the paddler can grasp comfortably. For me that is a maximum of about 3-3/8 inches (8.6 cm), though I find 3-1/4 inches a little more comfortable. My wife's is about 2-7/8 inches. All traditional paddles (made in Greenland) I have seen dimensioned drawings of have been under 3 inches wide. Width of blade at root: Varies from the thickness of the loom (no shoulder) to about half the width at the tip. Thickness of loom: No more than you can circle your forefinger and thumb around. Mine are typically about 1-1/2 inches by about 1-1/4 inches, though 1-1/2 inches by 1 inch would be more authentic. Those are the basic dimensions. Generally: long, narrow, unfeathered, symmetrical blades no less than 1/3 the length of the paddle, with the blades tapering from maximum at the tip to minimum at the loom. This distinguishes GPs from other Inuit paddles which might taper in the opposite direction. The maximum length and width also distinguish GPs from superficially similar paddles such as those from Baffinland, which might be as long as 245 cm and as wide as 4 inches, but which cannot be used in the same way. The symmetry distinguishes them from Aleutian paddles. Also, Greenland blades vary in cross section from lenticular at the tip to a thick oval or diamond shape near the loom. One last distinction: Greenland paddles do not have carved or other drip rings that might inhibit a sliding stroke. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> If you entered a kayak boutique and saw a rack of paddles what physical > characteristics would you look for to distinguish a Greenland paddle from a > Euro paddle. Almost nothing to add after responses by Chuck and Rob. I personally would look for wood first of all (not a decisive criteria, but will exclude most of non-GP paddles in boutique). There must be some reason, but everybody seems to make GP of wood (sharp edges of composite to slide hands along?). Then, of course, I would look for "high-aspect" blades, or in another words, and without exhausting myself by brain work, - for paddles with so much blade that there is almost no shaft :-), where most of paddle length (75-80%) is taken by blades. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
JW wrote: >What I am looking for is, How do you recognize a Greenland or Euro paddle when you see one? For me: A Greenland paddle is a double bladed paddle without feather - distinguishable by blades which are longer than the loom, sized such that the hands grasp both blades simultaneously during the stroke. A Euro paddle is a double bladed paddle which may be feathered - distinguishable by having a loom which is longer than the blades, sized such that the hands grasp the loom during the stroke. Cheers Colin Colin Calder www.kayakscotland.com < 34 more lines removed by moderator > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 8 Sep 2004 at 10:11, Colin Calder wrote: > A Greenland paddle is a double bladed paddle without feather - > distinguishable by blades which are longer than the loom, sized such > that the hands grasp both blades simultaneously during the stroke. > > A Euro paddle is a double bladed paddle which may be feathered - > distinguishable by having a loom which is longer than the blades, > sized such that the hands grasp the loom during the stroke. These two definitions leave out a several paddles that I would not classify as Greenland - specifically, the composite quill paddles. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > A Greenland paddle is a double bladed paddle without feather - > > distinguishable by blades which are longer than the loom, sized such > > that the hands grasp both blades simultaneously during the stroke. > > > > A Euro paddle is a double bladed paddle which may be feathered - > > distinguishable by having a loom which is longer than the blades, > > sized such that the hands grasp the loom during the stroke. > > These two definitions leave out a several paddles that I would not > classify as Greenland - specifically, the composite quill paddles. I know canoe "quill" and "ottertail" shapes of paddles (wouldn't tell one from another, though :-), - but they are (of course) not double-bladed. Did you mean kayaking quill paddles? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 8 Sep 2004 at 22:53, alex wrote: > I know canoe "quill" and "ottertail" shapes of paddles (wouldn't tell > one from another, though :-), - but they are (of course) not > double-bladed. Did you mean kayaking quill paddles? Yes. There are several makes and models that have been available over the years. Werner made one, IIRC. So did Nimbus and others. There was a nice wooden one as well. A friend made his own version by copying the original (the original was owned by a controversial fellow that contributed - not positively - to the formation of Paddlewise). Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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